Episode 70 - Mastering Marriage: Robert and Sharla Snow's 32-Year Journey

In this episode of the Maxed Out Man podcast, host Kevin Davis speaks with Dr. Robert and Sharla Snow about their 32-year marriage journey, their experiences coming from divorced families, and how they overcame the odds to build a strong, lasting relationship. They discuss the importance of emotional intelligence, effective communication, and maintaining a growth mindset in marriage. The Snows also share their expertise in neuro-linguistic programming, Gottman Method Couples Therapy, and their mission to help other couples strengthen their relationships. This episode emphasizes the importance of commitment, the impact of secure relationships on various life aspects, and practical strategies for sustaining a healthy marriage.

Learn More about Robert and Sharla:

https://masteryourmarriagepodcast.com/

Key Points:

1. Introduction and Background:
   • Robert and Sharla Snow's 32-year marriage.
   • Their backgrounds from divorced families.
   • Professional expertise in neuro-linguistic programming and Gottman Method Couples Therapy.
2. Challenges and Statistics:
   • High divorce likelihood for couples from divorced families.
   • The phases of their relationship and the evolution of societal views on marriage.
3. Emotional Intelligence and Growth:
   • Importance of emotional intelligence in managing conflicts.
   • Differentiation and psychological maturity in relationships.
   • Continuous personal and relational growth.
4. Commitment and Communication:
   • The role of commitment in addressing relationship issues directly.
   • Avoiding negative talk about partners outside the relationship.
5. Raising Children with Strong Values:
   • Teaching children principles to develop autonomy and emotional intelligence.
   • The impact of parents' relationship dynamics on children's development.
6. Annual Mission Statements:
   • Creating a mission statement and setting values for their marriage and family.
   • The benefits of intentional rituals and planning.

Chapters:

1. [0:00 - 2:15] Introduction and Guest Backgrounds:
   • Kevin introduces the podcast and guests, Dr. Robert and Sharla Snow.
   • Overview of their marriage, children, and professional expertise.
2. [2:16 - 5:35] Early Marriage and Challenges:
   • Discussing their early marriage, coming from divorced homes.
   • Statistical challenges of divorce and societal changes in marriage views.
3. [5:36 - 9:29] Emotional Intelligence and Growth in Marriage:
   • The importance of emotional intelligence in relationships.
   • Phases of their relationship and learning from each other.
4. [9:30 - 14:08] Commitment and Communication Strategies:
   • Discussing commitment and the importance of addressing issues directly with each other.
   • Strategies for effective communication and avoiding negative talk outside the relationship.
5. [14:09 - 18:24] Raising Children with Strong Values:
   • Teaching children principles and autonomy.
   • Balancing lifting children up and maintaining discipline.
6. [18:25 - 23:01] Annual Mission Statements and Rituals:
   • Creating a mission statement and setting values for their marriage and family.
   • Planning intentional rituals and their benefits.

To learn more about Maxed Out Man and to maximize your potential, visit www.maxedoutman.com or connect with us on Social Media:

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Transcript

0:00
Welcome to maxed out man helping you
0:06
become the man you were made to be hey guys it's Kevin Davis from the
0:11
max man podcast we are here with Dr Robert and Charlotte snow I'm super excited to have these guys uh we were
0:17
just talking about some different things that we have in common so I'm super uh pumped to have these guys and I'm joined
0:23
here with my beautiful bride so the the level of Beauty has risen a lot uh from
0:30
what you guys normally see if you're watching this on video hey before I forget go to Max man.com check out what
0:35
we have going on we've got courses coaching lots of resources and our podcast and don't forget to go to master
0:41
your marriage podcast as well uh that's Robert and Charlotte's podcast and they have tons of resources and we'll talk
0:48
about more about what they do let me give you their intro uh the bio a little bit and then we'll throw in the gaps Dr
0:54
Robert and Charlotte snow have been married for almost 32 years uh I think you said 1992 on one of your post that I
1:00
saw uh and they have four children both coming from divorced homes Robert and Charlotte were determined to learn the
1:06
secrets of having a long uh lifelong happy marriage us to Robert received his doctorate degree from University of
1:12
Southern California Physical Therapy they are both skilled practitioners in neurolinguistic programming Michelle was
1:19
like what is that and so we'll talk about that and figure it out hypnosis and timeline therapy and certify others
1:25
in these modalities additionally they participate in certification consultation training in gotman method
1:31
couples therapy and use gotman couples therapy in their work hey you guys I'm super excited you came on board thank
1:37
you so much you guys are are podcasters as well I know you kind of do all sorts of different things so I want to talk
1:43
about that um but that's kind of your basic stuff but I would like to just
1:49
have everybody learn more about you guys in terms of what you do how you got here um kind of kind of your loves and and
1:56
all those things just fill in the gaps for us yeah well thanks so much for having us it's it's such a treat to be
2:02
with you too and to have both of you which I think is so fun to do couples and couples right yeah yeah so you go
2:09
should we start where do we start Where Do We Begin so yeah we have been it is actually I need to update the website 32
2:14
years um we have four kids we live in near Salt Lake City Utah our kids are
Early Marriage and Challenges
2:20
almost all grown we have one left at home and it began for us back when we
2:25
first got married um when we got together we had five divorces between our parents
2:33
so my mom's my mom's married four times and then my my parents married divorced
2:39
married again to each other again so it was kind of a disaster one stuck um
2:47
neither okay but it was it was kind of a crap show um
2:53
for both of us growing up and not a lot of modeling so you know we thought you know we've got love and love is a enough
3:00
and we're going this love and lust is love is the center to all good
3:06
marriages right you know but if you think you know and I know charlot's probably going to get to the stats and
3:12
and it wasn't until I think we did another podcast we didn't realize how doomed we
3:17
were um and and I say that in real terms so if if you know if we're a couple and
3:23
we come together and the woman in the relationship is from a divorced home it's 63% more likely that that couple
3:30
will then split they'll get divorced if the man is coming from a divorced home only the man um then it's somewhere in
3:36
the mid-40s right um but if both are divorced homes it's like 189% likelihood
3:41
that they'll get caught so you know we talk about sort of these three phases of our relationship and the first phase is
3:48
we never should have made it nope um and and truth be told had you know if we
3:53
fast forwarded 20 or 30 years and we got married in today's world and today's culture we would have not it
3:59
relationship ship are are much more disposable than they used to be and marriag is much oh it wasn't the right
4:04
fit it's fine and go on um so yeah we we sort of gutted it out and and you know
4:11
we went through a lot wish wish that we would learn some things and as Charlotte alluded to we just didn't have a lot of
4:17
great modeling like you know my mom was great at at raising her voice and screaming and and those typ that's so
4:24
that's how I thought you solved disagreement yep yep so both coming from
4:29
you know not super secure attachment ourselves with poor modeling and and really no skills no premarital
4:36
counseling we just wanted to figure out a way to save us right and then the more
4:42
we got into doing coaching work we started working I individ I worked individually initially with women and I
4:50
started finding that when they would bring their partner on board that things just magically happened in all areas of
4:57
their life so once they were solid in their relation reltionship um even though they might be coming to me for
5:02
business coaching initially this was years ago once their partner was on board it affected every area of their
5:08
life when your relationship is secure healthy and solid it impacts your work it impacts spirituality it impacts
5:15
family it impacts Community it has this trickle down effect to every area of our life and that's so that's really where
5:23
our passion towards helping couples began was wow we can make a difference and an impact in so many parts of
5:31
people's lives by helping them with their relationship yeah yeah that's amazing we
Emotional Intelligence and Growth in Marriage
5:37
um so with maxed out man we obviously deal mostly with men but we kind of have these you know everybody has their
5:43
pillars right so it's man which is you know Health Fitness those kind of things mission which is purpose and business
5:48
and those things but the central point that we I work around is marriage um because because without the marriage at
5:55
the center and we use this kind of paino thing when you talk about marketing which is hey you've got everything
6:00
together everybody looks up to you but when you show up at a party everybody can tell how miserable you are as a as a
6:06
couple right and so that's like that Central Hub and I'm super thankful for Michelle because we don't you know we we
6:13
um it's getting better right on the day yeah it definitely
6:21
is it's work right it's what we it's a it's a life work to work on your relationship and you know we often share
6:29
this metaphor over and over on our podcast but we we really relate it to the metaphor in the Bible that talks
6:35
about the Refiner's Fire you know and in the refiner brings in the metal they Dr
6:41
they melt down gold silver whatever the dross Rises up to the surface which is the impurities from that metal and
6:48
removes it so that the metal can be reshaped and to me that's the analogy of of marriage because we get to see each
6:55
other we get to see our reflection in each other we get to mirror back to one another ourselves and the ways that we
7:02
are still hugely immature very much still underdeveloped and we get to take
7:08
that as an opportunity if we'll look at that as an opportunity and go how can I be refined here how can I continue to
7:14
grow and this isn't something that we go oh I made it we're here we've right yeah
7:19
it's life work yeah it's the Journey of allowing your relationship to grow you
7:25
as an individual and realizing that that we all have our own path and that I may
7:31
not be growing as fast as Charlotte is growing one area or vice versa and and
7:38
having a little Grace for your partner as long as they're trying and growing um
7:43
you know that's part of the part because we're allowing ourselves to grow in our you know in our
7:49
individual I don't know what to say individual what it's not individual relationship but how we relate to each
7:54
other and to ourselves and whether we're willing to grow on our own as well well
7:59
as within this relationship yeah yeah yeah it's funny that you bring up dross because we were was it is it James that
8:06
were we just started a study on James on right now I don't know if you Ed that app but right now has a bunch of video
8:12
studies and he was talking about dross um in the concept of that's what God
8:17
does to us like they they remove that dross over and over again until you can actually see yourself in the image of
8:23
God right like that mirror back is how God sees us and to REM all that and I love that you're bringing that back
8:30
um well and our relationship with God is like that a marriage relationship right the Bible refers to that quite a bit
8:36
that the bride of Christ and stuff so um yeah so it's cool that that we imitate that within our own marriages absolutely
8:43
and no in no other relationship really do we have that level of you know where
8:49
someone's going to trigger us and impact us the way that our partner does so it
8:55
is it it really is an opportunity to look in the mirror and see how you know
9:01
a word that we sometimes use is something called differentiation which is really our emotional and our psychological maturity and you know
9:10
differentiation is your ability to stay true to who you are and to be able to manage yourself when you're in the
9:16
presence of someone who really matters to you someone who can really impact you emotionally and and that's why this
9:23
person that we get to live this life with and do this life with is that perfect mirror for us
Commitment and Communication Strategies
9:30
yeah and do you find that why is it that people today have such a hard time with
9:36
that is it just it's just just a ego is it selfishness is you know we've done some we don't do marital counseling but
9:42
we've done uh marital coaching anymore but we've done premarital we've done crisis counseling and and all
9:49
mentorship ment yeah but but we've noticed that there's that central element of ego and selfishness and and
9:57
all that but why you know how does that dichotomy work like between me as an
10:02
individual Michelle as an individual and then us as a couple continue to grow and move forward and why do people have such
10:07
a hard time like that I think that I think that part of um look I'm sorry I
10:12
stepped on no no no go I think that part of part of it is cultural that we have now
10:17
when right everybody's like oh you do you and and do what's best for you first
10:23
um so there's a lot of this egocentric self-centered um stuff that's going on
10:29
and almost to the point where we're not even connecting anymore with other people like our relationships are online
10:34
we're we're mirrored into into this device nonstop you know I mean this this
10:39
is this is our focus and heaven forbid this goes away um and and I think it's hard it's really hard to think about
10:46
somebody other than yourself I love I love Jordan Peterson's quote where he says you're never truly going to grow up
10:51
until you have children when you realize that somebody is more important than you and the point when you get to that point
10:58
where somebody's life or somebody's happiness or somebody's care and consideration is more important than
11:03
than the thing that you want to do right now right I just want to sleep I want to watch TV like once you give those things
11:09
up then you're really going to start growing as an individual growing up right and so when we think about that in
11:15
the relationship and the context to our partner this person that should mean everything to us who also knows how to
11:21
trigger us absolutely positively and send us over the edge if they wanted to
11:26
um when we start to sort of subjugate our needs and our wants to this other person that is when you start to grow
11:34
exponentially Beyond this the you know the singular ID of you know what is my relationship to myself and how and how
11:41
can I get uncomfortable and we talk about that uncomfortable that that discomfort and that growth in all
11:47
aspects of our life like in our relationship and our physical fitness like you're actually not going to build
11:52
strength unless you're going to get uncomfortable you're not going to build Fitness unless you're going to get uncomfortable you're not going to lose
11:58
weight or we're in you know and maybe maybe is a nice term right we're going to change our body mass from lean body
12:05
mass to non-lean body mass right we're not going to do any of those things unless we get uncomfortable so life is
12:10
really about getting uncomfortable yet the thing that is more prevalent into
12:15
today Society is is just do what feels right we're addicted to comfort yeah and just be comfortable and I think that
12:22
unless you're willing to get uncomfortable and and we see that in the couples that we coach right they come in and and they just want to point fingers
12:28
like oh it's it's their fault and and you just go well that's a reflection of you yeah right yeah it's
12:35
interesting there's so many paradoxes in marriage it's funny because on one hand like what Robert just said we are so
12:43
self-focused but also it's funny because even though we are so self-focused we are actually very
12:52
much basing ourself on the reflection that we see in ourselves from others so
12:58
we're so focused on what is happening with our social media likes and whether people like us and we become obsessed
13:05
with that and that becomes a big part in relationships that makes it really
13:11
challenging um when someone doesn't have a solid sense of self they they don't
13:16
know who they are they don't know what their values are they don't know what their beliefs are and they they're
13:21
they're they're dependent on getting a positive self-reflection from their partner in order to feel good about
13:27
themselves otherwise they get anxious or angry or whatever it is that's a big
13:32
piece of the of the problem I think as well and and that comes down all of these things really come down to if I
13:38
were to put them under one big umbrella I'd say probably emotional intelligence I think culturally we really lack um the
13:46
emotional intelligence to do well in managing conflicts and relationship we let you know these the blaming and the
13:53
triggers and all that stuff run us we let our you know feelings are important but at the same times so is thinking and
14:00
so is some logic occasionally and we sometimes let these these big feelings that we feel override logic um and you
Raising Children with Strong Values
14:09
know I think emotional intelligence is the ability to feel big feelings and not react in a way that you're going to
14:16
regret later yeah because that's sort of that difference between love being you
14:21
know that that whole love as a choice not a feeling ABS right if you let if you let your feelings dictate your
14:26
behavior you're in trouble because yeah dude in any given moment of the day
14:32
right yeah but look at the world we're so poorly self-directed you know that we
14:37
can't talk about religion or politics or you know Democrats or Republicans or
14:43
anything without people losing their minds like we need to be able to self-direct and maintain and handle
14:49
those big emotions without having us react in these ways and the same is true in relationships I like the way you put
14:54
that you were so so much more diplomatic in in this run um because I think first
15:00
first the first time she postulated that I think she said emotional intelligence is the ability to to have big emotions
15:07
without acting like an an a-hole I think or something and and then she she altered
15:12
it to a three-year-old which we thought was a little I think we use the three-year-old on the podcast but but you're you're getting better I'm getting
15:18
better you're self editing which is well it doesn't take long watching today's news in order to see both of those last
15:25
two analogies three-year-old a-holes which I don't if three-year-olds are they're kind of that way just by Nature
15:32
um yeah I think that makes sense it's interesting what you were talking about with being a mirror right one of the
15:38
things when she's dealing with self-esteem issues or whatever which you know we all do I will tell her I say
15:45
what do I say about I wish you could see yourself the way that I see you yeah
15:51
right and and that because when you hear me talk about her and it's all true is you know she's a total badass right and
15:57
so I will always talk she's like you always talk about me like I'm this superhero which she has a Fascination
16:02
for Wonder Woman I'm a Wonder Woman but yeah that's you know that's I
16:10
feel like one of my roles as a husband is to mirror that the best of who she is
16:16
and to make sure and communicate with her in that way yeah I mean I think if you're I think if you're doing it right
16:23
right I think you try to build each other up and then I think the problem comes when you start to you start
16:30
to not build each other up first step right we start to get lacad isical with
16:36
that or complacent with our building our partner up and then we get to the point where you know we start to in you know
16:44
with our friends then we start to create negative connotations around our partner like oh he's this or she's that all
16:50
these types of things where you're you know you're sharing these these opinions and like that's just that's that's
16:56
corrosive to any relationship one like you just think that that doesn't sound good um people think that it's you know
17:03
and it's the guys get together whining about their wives or the girls get together whining about their husbands and and I don't really know how that goes right but um you know think about
17:11
that as a measure so if if you're if you even feel like you're having these negative feelings about your partner and
17:17
we have one rule and the thing that we coach is that any any negative feedback goes exactly to that person yeah it
17:23
doesn't go to anyone else we keep negative feedback in in this circle it's a very tight Circle right it's me and
17:29
her right we're united front to everything else so if I have feedback for Charlotte I give Charlotte the feedback and that's hard right it's hard
17:37
for me to learn how to do it without getting emotional it's hard for her to accept feedback
17:42
um and it all depends on that approach but yeah so like one of our tenants really is like keep it positive build
17:48
each other up always always build each other up in front of each other build each other up in front of everyone else
17:54
and so I I love that it's like one of my favorite things to do I I I say the same things like we we joke about well I
18:00
don't know if I joke I don't know if she jokes about it but I do people say like oh you guys you do the you do the podcast I'm like I'm the on air Talent
18:06
man Charlotte is the one behind behind the scenes like coming up with all the excellent content I just show up and you
18:13
know tell her which part I'm going to do and then I and I just do it but I like what Robert just brought up though about
18:18
bringing our stuff to each other to me that is the definition of commitment and
18:24
um you know there was a a woman who since passed away who is a researcher and she studied infidelity and she
Annual Mission Statements and Rituals
18:31
wanted to know just like John gotman wanted to know if you could predict divorce she wanted to know can you predict infidelity in relationships and
18:38
one of the things that she found that could predict um whether or not your
18:43
partner was going to cheat was this bringing of our stuff to each
18:49
other and one of the turning points for for Partnerships is when one of the partners started to go inside and think
18:57
you know what I could do better I don't need to put up with this crap I could do better and they start to share their
19:02
grievances outside of the relationship they start to share with the Barista at
19:08
Starbucks or the guy at the office and they start to you know share these negative um perspectives that they have
19:16
about their partner and thinking inside I could do better and for many people
19:21
that is the turning point of what ends up building towards
19:26
infidelity yeah I can see that for sure you know one of the things that I've made a huge effort at is you would you
19:33
couldn't go to anywhere on the planet and have somebody say that I've said a negative word about her like it just doesn't it just doesn't happen like it
19:40
just it's and so that like we have we have various rules right like no women no girls weekends no guys nights out
19:48
don't talk badly about each other and that goes back to that emotional maturity that we talked about
19:54
a few minutes ago when we lack a solid sense of self and when we are emotionally psychologically immature we
20:01
want to triangulate we want to create triangles because it builds us up in that way so we go find a friend to
20:08
complain to about something and we create these triangle relationships we get validated oh that's right seeking
20:15
validation yeah absolutely well and do you find too like you talked about the social media aspect before but like if
20:21
you are you know not connecting with your spouse or not feeling loved or whatever how like nowadays it's so easy
20:27
just to go out there into the social media world and get those likes and those loves and and yeah it's it's I
20:34
mean there's always been you know the option of going out but it just seems like it's even easier now because just in a second you can go on your phone and
20:41
and shoot something out there to the world to try to get that love and everything yeah you know and this is a
20:47
really complex topic um Dr Bowen talked about it Dr Davis schnarch talks about it there's a lot of areas in Psychology
20:54
you can study there's a book called everything isn't terrible which is a a great book I highly recommend couples
21:00
read together um but it talks about how we when we're born we're born with this
21:06
reflected sense of self where we look at our parents and go oh I'm beautiful I'm smart I'm intelligent I'm worthy all
21:11
these things because I'm being reflected back to me through my parents that I am these things but at some point in our
21:17
life if we don't flip that and we become a and we're able to self validate those
21:23
things if we continue to seek outside of ourselves for that knowledge that we're worthy that were enough that we valuable
21:30
that were whatever smart then we just constantly go looking into out outside
21:36
of us social media for the likes and that when you bring it into a relationship gets really interesting
21:42
because when I need him to prop me up to let me know you know that's a heavy
21:48
burden for him to constantly have to do and at some point he's not going to do that and so if if he isn't able to give
21:56
me that validation the instant that I need it Ian it's great to build each other up but to be dependent on that is
22:01
another thing and when we're dependent on that then that means we really can't control ourselves emotionally we can't
22:08
control our anxiety we we're not um emotionally intelligent enough to do that so we start to control our partner
22:15
because if I can't control myself I have to control him in order to get that positive reflection back and now we get
22:21
into now I'm stepping on his autonomy and now there becomes resentment in the relationship so yeah that that that book
22:29
is a really good book to start to look at ourselves in the mirror a little bit better to see where we are still
22:36
emotionally immature and need to do that self-work sounds like a good one we
22:41
should check out yeah you said everything isn't terrible right is that the name of it yeah yeah and you guys
22:49
have four kids and you know we're talking about social we're talking about all of these different things and and
22:54
raising your children you know I think one of the problems that we have now and you know this is on a social commentary
23:00
um podcast but I'm curious how you taught your kids to have that autonomy
23:07
you know to to do that balance between being lifted up because I think we're in a situation now we at our church there's
23:13
a ton of young families and the and the kids kind of have a free-for-all life a
23:19
little bit to where they're really you know they're just they're lifted up all the time with no discipline or anything
23:25
like that and and I think that creates adults that kind of have the the issue that you have which is low emotional
23:31
intelligence and you know the the need and desire for other people to let you know tell them how awesome they are all
23:36
the time like how did you guys raise your children to not do that well I think assum I'm just
23:43
assuming you did I'm I'm looking at we still got a 15-year-old at home oh yeah good luck
23:50
and he's got a tremendous amount of confidence so I I think giving them teaching them certain principles really
23:56
helps helping them to Define who they are really helps because then they're not needing to take on the emotions and
24:05
necessarily the opinions and the beliefs of the world around them so teaching them solid principles I think is a a big
24:11
part of that um helping them to you know I would not say we're experts at this I
24:16
think no one is really differentiated by the time they're 18 I certainly wasn't I
24:21
feel like I'm still working on it no one is ever fully differentiated we just have levels of becoming better at this
24:27
and so I think my kids just like we are they're still working on that um but
24:32
noticing where we are like for a fun a fun experiment would be to just go 24
24:38
hours and just make a note of every time you are focusing on other people versus
24:44
focusing on yourself where am I trying to where am I getting upset inside and
24:49
wanting to control Robert because he loaded the dishwasher wrong or shrunk my
24:55
favorite shirt or when you did LA the other day right where am I focusing on
25:01
others so intensely and the the feedback that I'm getting from others versus just focusing on myself and that's a really
25:09
fun experiment to really look inside yourself and see um and and I think
25:15
those conversations with your kids are ongoing we have a 29-year-old and I think those conversations continue to
25:21
happen yeah I think that so in addition to what Charlotte said I think that it's
25:29
important because you sort of mentioned where you know these kids are becoming adults now right um I think it's
25:35
important to make sure that your kids are not having to prop you up
25:41
emotionally right so if you have a child who I mean if you if you have this need to be always
25:49
validated um in everything because you're lacking a sense of self and you're not you're poorly differentiated
25:54
and now your your kids are propping you up you're defining by your children right your relationship is defined as
26:01
it's you know charl and I have kids we're also married right instead of charl and I are married and we have
26:07
children right and so I I think that the more you in any relationship in any age I
26:13
think the more that your children are having to prop you up and support your relationship I think they're not working
26:20
on themselves and then and then what happens when they leave the house they like well my only purpose in life is to
26:27
kind of keep my parents happy or reflect to my mom that that she's good or or whatever that is and now these you know
26:34
we've cut the rudder cut the tether on these poor kids we sent them out into the world without a purpose like they
26:40
don't they don't know what their purpose is they haven't sought that out and I think if anything um and and so I'll
26:46
I'll move in aside I I I spent a lot of time with um in in my profession I have
26:52
my doctor degree but I spent a lot of time even when I was in school with with kids who were getting their doctor degree they had no idea if they wanted
26:58
to continue in the career path that they were in they were just trying it out and I'm thinking you're just trying out a a
27:04
three-year degree at The Graduate level from USC like man your parents gotta gotta own
27:09
something this is this is one heck of an experiment and and I've also been with people like oh well my dad my dad wants
27:15
me to be an accountant so I'm going to be now I'm going to be an accountant and I was the worst kind of parent when it
27:21
came to that I'm like they're like what should I do I'm like what do you love what do you what do you love to do
27:27
what's your passion like go do that and then go take some General Ed in in college and figure out what it is that
27:32
you want I was lucky enough to go back to school at 33 and so I knew what I wanted and then
27:39
I was able to dive into that career and now I'm not saying that's for everybody but I'm just saying if you'll let these
27:46
kids start to find out who they are and what they believe in and what they believe in what purposes in life and
27:53
then just sort of help direct them in their purpose like they have questions like hey I'm here to I'm I'm I'm like
27:58
the the help desk at Staples or something right you have a question not I'm just going to sit here and scroll
28:04
until you you but I'm always here you have a question like great I'm I'm GNA be happy to help you and I'm going to give you some guidance like hey like I
28:11
think that's a great path probably a little dangerous to take that shortcut you might want to take this right so
28:18
maybe you should do that so I'm not suggesting we don't give guidance I'm not suggesting we don't give values and
28:23
then and I said that as a lead in for Charlotte because I know we're going to talk about that but I'm not suggesting
28:29
they don't give values but but our kids watch us they watch everything that we do if we're unhappy in a relationship
28:35
they know that we can pretend that we're sticking it out for the kids right but
28:41
but they know they know that Mom and Dad are not having a great relationship even if you even if they never saw you
28:46
disagree and by the way that's the I always worry about that when people say I never saw my parents fight I'm like oh
28:52
so you never saw you never saw anybody resolve a disagreement did you see them hug and kiss like I don't like were they
28:58
just hiding everything so I don't know that's I yeah values is an interesting conversation I'm glad Robert brought
29:05
that up I think that's a great way to help kids become more solid and who they are is to talk about what our values are
29:11
and talk to them about what's important to them and what their values are we do this thing in our relationship every
29:16
year that has probably transformed our relationship to a higher level more than
29:22
anything else that we've ever done and what we do is January first week of January we get a cabin we go up into the
29:28
mountains we usually are snowed in and there's a crater that giv geothermal place where we can go swim other than
29:35
that we're kind of like in our hotel room or the cabin and we we create a mission statement for our marriage and
29:41
we flush out what our values are for our marriage and for our family and we create intentional rituals and um
29:50
calendar out those rituals for the year and so it's like you know we've had people say that's that's crazy why would
29:55
you treat your relationship like a business oh well I don't know how's your business
30:01
doing how's your relationship doing what if we all treated our our relationship a little bit more intentional like we do
30:07
our business maybe it would be a little bit more successful and that has up leveled um our relationship tenfold of
30:15
all the things we learn about how to have a better friendship how to how to manage conflict that one piece um took
30:22
our marriage from good to like on fire we we sit and we have conversations
30:28
first about how last year went and we talk about what went right and what didn't what we learned and then we go
30:35
okay what's important to us now what's important to you in the context of our relationship what's important to you
30:40
well what's important to you in the context of our family or what's important to you what's important to in the context of our business and we we
30:47
make these lists and then we um rank these lists in terms of hierarchy of
30:53
what's most important to us of all and then we go okay now from here let's let's build out how this next year is
31:00
going to look let's take these things that are so important to our us our family our kids and see our kids see
31:06
this right so helping our kids to become better um solid in who they are you have
31:12
principles you have values you know what you stand for and they see that whether they choose those same values or not
31:17
they know Mom and Dad that was important to them they put mission statements up on the wall they they said that we were
31:23
going to do these rituals and we saw them do it and maybe we should live our life that way a little bit too yeah mean
31:29
I love that that's cool if you think about it right Michelle like we change from year to
31:36
year we do our relationship changes you guys don't you don't engage you're right
31:42
here in front of me so put fing so the two of you don't engage in
31:48
anything the same way you did when you're first married no true I
31:55
mean your your conversation are different your bedtime routines are different your intimate connection and
32:02
sex is different like everything is different yet if you didn't make any adjustments in knowing who this person
32:09
is who's next to you you didn't make any adjustments about finding out what's important to them then all of a sudden then you hear
32:17
things you know people say like oh well we've just drifted apart you didn't drift apart you just didn't spend time trying to trying to maintain that
32:23
connection there's drifting apart drifting apart in his negligence right like oh well you know I guess I guess
32:29
we're married we're married and that's what it is so the beauty of this values assessment for us is that we we change
32:36
we have different goals every year like oh this year I think maybe I want to work on you know X Y or Z or these are
32:43
some big projects that are coming up like oh hey let's launch a podcast well there's a project right or maybe we're
32:49
going to do a new course or whatever that is and and what do you feel called to do this year like what do you want it charlot you know I think last year 2023
32:57
she says you know I just want to get up every morning and let's just work out for 20 to 30 minutes like okay let's just do that right and it's you know
33:04
it's not crazy but we just you know turn the TV off a little earlier get everybody in bed and we just get up at
33:10
6:15 6:30 get a half hour in there and we get a chance to talk and warm up right and and it depends on the goals
33:16
and and how can I support her if her one of her goals is health and fitness now I know what's important to her and if I
33:23
know what's important to her it's really easy for me to support her in the thing that she articulated as this is one of
33:29
my top 10 things that I want to do this year like great easy I'll help you support that she's like yeah and I know
33:34
that your goal is this right is my goal Harmony in the household or something like so if my goal is that then she's
33:40
you know if I start spinning up with the 15-year-old she's like what let's let's dial this back right right let's let's
33:47
search for a little Harmony and as it relates to you know kind of the broader question that you ask about children I
33:52
think if we instill these values and help them understand what's important to them not the values that the world tells
33:58
them is important because there's a lot of people there's a lot of voices out there that they hear and as parents and
34:04
as people in committed relationship with children you realize that your voice is just one of many and oftentimes not the
34:10
most important voice to them in their head and until we can get them connected
34:16
with their true self their value what is important to you on these very things when they understand their values
34:23
set then that is going to lead even their unconscious values which is the part that we like like to talk about
34:28
when they can dig into their unconscious values they'll act on those unconscious values right and if they're strong
34:34
enough in those values then they don't need to be pushed around by every wind that blows left and right they can make decisions that they feel are best for
34:41
their direction for their value for their goals and then you start to live less for the likes yeah right yeah makes sense you
34:48
know it's really being deliberate right like that's the that's the thing that I think most people don't realize we've
34:54
been married it'll be 29 years this this July and and you know so we've been married about you know similar and when
35:00
you tell people that they look at you like you've got three heads right like they it's almost which is just so sad we
35:07
went back to a funeral in Oklahoma and my family is just like watching an episode of cops but um you know like you
35:16
know my one of our family members made this statement like you know she's in
35:21
her late 30s and she's like and all my friends are on like their second divorce now and like she was she was listing off
35:27
these things as if these were Rel these were life goals like there there's this like there's like this timeline and
35:34
Milestone of the number of divorces you have by 40 and like I'm trying to wrap my my mind around that but but it really
35:42
takes this deliberate action and when it comes to kids what you know I've said this on the podcast before but I got this text from my youngest um back in
35:49
Father's Day and it was an amazing text I cried all this stuff but one of the things that she said that really struck
35:54
both of us was that she always knew knew that our relationship was the rock right
36:02
like there was no question in her mind that anything else that's going on in the world her life our lives whatever
36:08
that that was that solidity right that that was that yes and I've heard it replied to are we called a launching pad
36:16
like having that as that launching pad and that's that's that Bedrock of who our kids can be and how they can go off
36:23
into the world and it's it's incredible that that you know our oldest is married
36:28
he's 29 and he has an incredible relationship we just have no idea the
36:34
power that we have to influence Generations by what they've witnessed in our relationship it trickles down they
36:41
see it all and they know what they want based on what they saw in their parents and you know when we help couples and
36:48
when you guys help couples make a shift you're not just helping that couple you're helping generations of people
36:54
because you know I look at our son and he didn't have to go through what we went through in the beginning you know
37:00
he just has an incredible friendship with his wife this amazing amazing friendship they they go away now and
37:06
they set their goals and their values for the year just not because we even taught them how to do it they just saw
37:11
it they just saw us do it we had our daughter similar to the text you got I we had our daughter one time when she
37:18
was probably like 12 um she looked at us one day and she's like you guys are so cute you guys are cute and I was like oh
37:27
you know they want that when you've modeled that for them they want that that's powerful that's a gift we can
37:33
give them yeah exactly yeah and really for us I always joked with them and there was a Cosby joke and I know Cosby
37:40
is Persona negr now but he would be like I'll make two more that look just like you right like that's so they always
37:47
knew that this relationship took precedence over was first was number one
37:53
you know we have God Mom then right sometimes do between between you know
37:59
between those two depending on the day 14 15 year old girls that was
38:05
definitely depending on the homework situation yeah yeah absolutely yeah and
38:11
I was fortunate I actually I came from my parents been married 54 years something like that now and so I came
38:18
from a very solid home and um I can totally relate to that that no matter what's been going on in my life like I
38:25
know Mom and Dad are there and they're solid and there that solidness in them
38:30
just there's just a strength there and just a comfort there that I know that's always going to be there and so I know
38:36
all three of you have come from divorced homes so um I I can't even imagine what that would be I tried she didn't really
38:43
get it until she got but that but think about that right so now so Michelle you knew it was
38:51
possible yeah yeah right and and and think about where we are now with these
38:56
couples that were are getting married and their and their parents were divorced like they don't they don't they
39:02
can't see it they don't they don't see that a successful relationship is possible they just they think that it's
39:08
an an eventuality right like Kevin's family
39:15
right eventuality that I'm just going to hit my next divorce and I'm just waiting for that to happen like okay well I
39:20
guess that's gonna happen right and and that's the thing you know it's funny we talk about you know and I'm sure you
39:27
guys are very similar you know before every one of our podcasts we pray and and you know while we don't spend a lot
39:33
of time on the religious side on our faith in the podcast we still pray like
39:39
just let us help one c one couple that's just our mission right because we know that we know that if we can change a
39:46
trajectory for a couple then we can change their children's lives and we can create better leaders and we can create
39:53
better families right because it's just so important and and we can create a lot more happiness and a lot less strife and
40:00
boy there's a whole host of problems that Happ with single parents but I don't that's that's just a depressing
40:05
stat there's all kinds of bad stuff that goes there but and and that's not to say like just playing the devil's advocate
40:11
for a second that does that's not to say that there aren't situations where divorce is appropriate
40:17
there are abusive situations of course but when we talk this way what we're really talking about is you know you're
40:24
a good person you're in a relationship with a good person person who's doing their best you're both trying to grow um
40:31
let's let's work on that because there's skills that you can learn even if things have been hard like they were for us
40:37
where conflict you know has was really difficult for us to manage where we
40:42
lacked um any sort of man conflict management skills you can learn that stuff as long as you're with someone who
40:48
is a good person by and large we can learn how to have a solid secure relationship yeah right there's not too
40:56
many relationships that are Beyond repair honestly if as long as both people are willing to try and put in the
41:02
effort and there's there's love there that's you know it's it's it's not easy
41:08
right just like any new skill right learning things is hard we all suck the first time we do anything new and as
41:14
long as we understand that um then then we can just move through it and and you
41:19
know friendship as really is a you know friendship is a is one of a core
41:25
foundations as long as we have a good friendship we still like each other there was love there right we can build
41:31
on friendship and then once we build on friendship then we can learn how to manage conflict a little bit better a
41:37
little bit better and then we can do things like go to the mountains and create our values and mission statement
41:42
right so we look at it as these three main tenants to building a relationship first core number one friendship right
41:49
what are the things we need to do to rebuild friendship second is no okay we've probably lost that friendship
41:56
because we poorly managed conflict and there's been some resentment that has built up so let's learn how to not
42:02
resolve conflict but how to manage conflict differently and then the third tenant is how do we create shared
42:09
meaning systems for our relationship and that's where we talk about rituals values creating a legacy together and
42:16
supporting each other's dreams right Mo sometimes our dreams align together sometimes he has a dream to you know
42:24
you're you're riding a century this weekend on his bike that's not my thing but I'm going to be there and I'm going to support him and I'll be at the finish
42:30
line so um you know those are the three areas creating shared meaning learning how to navigate conflict better and how
42:37
to manage our emotional intelligence as we do that and then how do we build friendship and if we can do those three
42:43
things you can have a very secure very healthy very happy
42:49
relationship it's good stuff I feel like that that kind of helps with that connection right like we we we faced a
42:55
few weeks ago actually just just we were like man we we feel so disconnected and we're spending a lot of time apart even
43:02
though I've worked out of the house for 30 years right we've been in this house for 20 um but and she's a stay-at-home
43:08
mom so like the think well how could you guys be disconnected right like you're you're in the same house all the time
43:13
but we we realized that our schedule was being weird and like we weren't really talking and communicating she was doing
43:20
her thing I'm doing my thing I run a bunch of businesses but then we we're like okay we full stop how do we fix
43:26
this what do we do yeah and and so then we she was like well one of the things that really
43:31
bothers me is when you get up early and do your workout and we both we've been Fitness Buffs forever and so when you do
43:37
your workout separately and then you kind of do your weights later in the day and I have to do so anyway there's just kind of this one of these shared
43:44
experiences that we that we lost right so in the last two or three weeks we
43:49
have re-engineered our schedule and I realize not everybody can do it at this extreme but basically we block off our
43:54
morning until 10:00 a.m. so get up every morning we do a walk or a run we do our
43:59
weights together we have breakfast together and then things start at 10: right and so that has been huge just
44:06
amazing that just like it's almost like all right well we flipped the switch we're reconnected now right like it's
44:11
it's you know the the extension cord when the saw stops right that that was it was disconnected and we reconnected
44:17
it and things are things are good to go but that connection goes around all of those pillars as well yeah that's right
44:24
that's the power of rituals that's what we we call them right we call them rituals of connection and we take and
44:32
create rituals very intentionally based off of our values so we find our values first in your case like you know having
44:39
being healthy is really important to the two of you so that would be one of your core values so how do we create rituals
44:45
around that and you did and now you have a better connection for someone else who maybe that isn't as important to them
44:51
they would just look at what is and then build rituals from that and we have some very specific rituals that we love to
44:58
recommend like having a weekly marriage meeting we feel like that is such a
45:03
powerful thing for couples to do we have um we suggest rituals for how people say
45:08
goodbye in the morning when they don't work from home right how they say goodbye in the morning and make sure that it's a you know a two-minute hug or
45:15
a 30 second kiss or there's some way of finding out what what do you have planned for the day well what do you
45:21
have planned for the day so that you can have something to follow up with later um we have rituals around how we greet
45:27
each other at the end of the day Robert always comes in he swoops my hair to the side and he kisses me on the back of my
45:32
neck that's like our greeting at at the when he gets home from work or you know
45:37
we just if you can build out those rituals and and then like you said when you notice you've missed a few days or a
45:44
few weeks have gone by that's when you correct because those rituals really bring you back together yeah everything
45:51
else will go on in the world as long as you guys are together in the middle of sort
45:58
of revamping our recording space so you probably see like gray on one half and white on the other there supposed to be
46:04
some wood that's going up over there um and I almost tore the whole studio apart last night but then I remembered we had
46:09
this podcast today and and Chara said something the other day she goes yeah it's just been
46:14
really busy there's been a lot of projects I don't feel as connected to you yeah um and so guess what like I
46:20
didn't do that last night we just sat down and just spent some time connecting with each other so my favorite way to
46:26
describe the greeting part when I come home is I'll come in and the and the 15-year-old he's standing there of
46:31
course he wants to comp you wants to say something to me and he gets a real quick high five and I go right over to her
46:37
right that's that that's showing him that she is the most important thing to me in the room then I'll come back and
46:44
I'll have a conversation with him right but it's always her first him second um and you know if she's not home then
46:50
it'll be him first or whatever and and a 15-year-old who's playing sports is probably just wanting to know where the
46:55
frozen burritos are I doubt I doubt that there's a lot I
47:01
doubt that there's a lot of other wisdom that he's seeking from me at this point but but you know that that that's just
47:07
one of those you know a couple of things and and really it's it's cool to spend time talking about your day so you guys
47:13
are working out so you're already going to have that like you know what's going on in her day he knows what's going on in your day like what's happening is
47:19
there a school thing is there a work thing is whatever right and and that's a great way to you know I'll check in with
47:25
Charlotte lunch even if I'm you know heading to another meeting I'll just call her and say hey how did it go I
47:31
know you had a client this morning right and and and so now we're just sort of maintaining that connection and she
47:38
likes to she likes to tell the story about how I call her on my way home from work um and my office is four and a half
47:43
minutes away the one the one that's four and a half minutes away I'll call her on my way home from work hey how's things
47:49
going like did you want to hop in the car and we'll go for we'll you know run over and get some some vitamin water or
47:55
something at the local gas station or something right like just one of our little rituals but that's a that's a way that we can decompress at the end of the
48:01
day for 10 15 minutes we're just out we're alone in the car we've created that space and then we're back and I know that you know all all your
48:08
listeners and people some people have young kids some people don't have the opportunity to do that but there's always a way to sneak 10 minutes away
48:16
right going to bed a little bit earlier instead of stand up and just just communicate about what's going on and
48:21
that those will those rituals will just build better connection and I love the fact that you guys just sort of felt
48:28
that and that you and then you just like you made a ritual to connect it and and so it's amazing right you already feel
48:33
better I actually when you replay the video you should see the smile that was on each of your
48:39
face it was great you talked about that and I could tell that that just brought you know amazing joy to you and in that
48:46
connection so yeah the what Robert described when he calls me on the way home from work that is as he said that
48:53
is another ritual that we have and we usually go get a drink and we go for a 20-minute drive but it's more than that
49:00
because what the research actually shows is couples that have struggled and the
49:07
ones that were therapy it used to be the couples that would go to therapy would actually have a higher likelihood of divorce than those who didn't go to
49:13
therapy that was pretty bad um but one of the things the research shows now is
49:18
that the ones that actually make the changes stick the ones that don't relapse what they do differently is they
49:25
have something called stress reducing conversations with each other where they have this opportunity to share what
49:32
happened in their day the good and the bad and not necessarily have to fix
49:38
anything just to talk like you can share what was hard in your day I can just show empathy he can do the same for me
49:44
and um we just do that for like 10 15 20 minutes and those couples that did that had a far less likelihood of relapse
49:52
than those who didn't just having that 20 minute stress reducing conversation it's what insulates your relationship
49:59
from the outside world yeah yeah I love that I love that you're calling it ritual too right
50:05
because it's like just things that we do right that's the you know like you know I make out a habit every you know my
50:10
office is kind of here the kitchen is directly behind this door and she spends
50:15
she's a baker by not by trade but she does a ton of baking and so I always
50:20
make it a point if I walk into the kitchen I always have to come usually give her a a hug behind her back or you
50:27
know the consumate butt slap that's required absolutely you you but that's
50:34
part of you know that's one of those habits that you do and in order and it and it really like you're saying it doesn't take that much time it really
50:40
doesn't take that much effort but I think it's so easy to get lazy about it right like to just to just let's just be
50:47
married and stay married like I don't really have to work at that and I think you know this is a podcast primarily for
50:53
you know geared towards men but I think men are even more guilty than than women
50:59
in this um in this thing which is probably why it explains the much higher
51:04
incidence of divorce being initiated by women than by men because men are like
51:09
hey things are fine I'm just gonna sit back right right yeah yeah yeah yeah I heard Jordan Peterson talk about that
51:16
statistic once and he was saying you know part of it is also because women generally feel emotion sometimes I mean
51:24
this is Broad strokes but we feel emotion much more intensely where men are more likely to like you said go
51:30
along and just keep just plugging away regardless of how it feels they've sort
51:36
of been maybe even conditioned to push those negative emotions down women are
51:41
going to feel them more rise to the surface and maybe that is a big part of this um this Gap you know this this
51:48
divorce gap of why do so many women are are filing for divorce more than more than men I think men just and well not
51:55
to go off on a to tangent but it's not easy for men in divorce either like the world has not made it very favorable for
52:01
them so I think they're much more likely to just suck it up and live unhappily than women are yeah and there's there's
52:08
things you can do and and you know we talk about talk about the the guys that are probably listening to the to this
52:15
right they've you have to ask yourself have I put the effort into have I put
52:21
the effort into my relationship that I put into my personal and professional success have I done that or have I just
52:27
assumed this is going to take care of itself right and and those of us who have people who manag divisions of
52:33
companies right like oh I put right she's the CEO of the household report okay great thank you thanks for that
52:39
report looks like there's some things you need to fix correct done right so um I think that if if you'll take that same
52:48
goal setting values and importance on making sure that you're hitting the
52:54
right metrics in your relationship is my con contion right am I spending time
52:59
building building her up am I spending time building my relationship do I feel like we're successful am I taking time
53:06
to retool companies have Retreats what do you do that for we get people together we're looking to connect like
53:12
what are the goals of said company Retreat right we're going to retreat we're going to get everybody together we're going to actually do some study
53:18
we're going to develop some new programs I'm sorry that's exactly what happens in a marriage Retreat we do the same thing
53:23
we're trying to we do a company Retreat to being to bring the important people in our company
53:29
together to help build them up and get everybody on the same page why don't we do a marriage Retreat which we call ours
53:34
and people get a little bit upset sometimes like we're doing a marriage Retreat and we're going to get the two
53:40
most important people in the business of the snow household together and we're going to talk about goals for what
53:47
happens we're going to create a mission and a vision statement and we're going to hold each other to it right and we're going to support each other to it and
53:52
your retreat is just as two members that's it just you and your partner you and your spouse that's who comes to the
53:58
retreat um yeah I love that I love that in business there's what did they talk
54:04
about they talk about like either Mission or vision statement and then they talk about strategies and then they
54:10
talk about tactics right so for us we take that mission strategies and tactics
54:16
and we call them Mission values and rituals it's the same thing so it's
54:21
going back to what you said earlier are we being deliberate in our relationship and intentional yeah and I'm not sure
54:28
that she would resonate if I start using the phrase kpi you know of our relationship which is keep key
54:33
performance Index right like that's and I was I was talking to I was talking to your guys on that one right
54:39
the ones who are like you know always trying to figure out what their metcs are the kpis yeah no but I mean there
54:45
really are you know key performance indexes in your relationship right like her happiness my happiness our
54:50
connection you know our intimacy and you know all of those things but going back to what we were talking about with like
54:56
butt slaps and like kiss on the neck and those kind of things having that we had a discussion the other night we were
55:02
talking about intimacy and sex and you know all of these different things but as a I'm a physical touch love language
55:08
guy and and I made the I made the point which is great that's why you enjoy that kiss on the neck right but I made the
55:14
point to her because it's easy for both men and women and women I think misunderstand this a little bit that you
55:22
know it's not always about sex right sex isn't always about sex it's their physical touches it and I said hey I
55:29
just need you know that slap on the butt or put your arm around me or touch my
55:34
shoulder or whatever and and she actually over the this conversation just happened like three nights ago something
55:39
like that and over the last two days she's made a deserted e effort to do those things and my love tank you know
55:47
use Dr Chapman's five love languages but my love tank is so much more full now
55:52
right and so so then that you know had a girl yeah yeah it's interesting we
56:00
learned that years ago as well how important that is we were um funny story real quick we were driving in the car we
56:06
were at a really um busy time in our marriage and growing in businesses and
56:14
uh we were going for a drive funny story yeah and I remember going around this roundabout and I was thinking of all
56:20
what a great wife I was and I said honey you know tell me like when can you
56:26
remember a time when you felt really loved by me and I I had a list in my back pocket of all the things I had done
56:32
so I was certain that he had a list to give me back and he got really quiet and
56:37
I'm like what is going on right now and he didn't say anything for like minutes and then he goes I don't know I can't
56:43
really think of anything right now and so that was this this was you know years ago but that was that was the
56:50
moment when I realized I wasn't feeding his love language mine is touch and so
56:55
you know we tend to give love in the way that we want to receive it so every time
57:01
I would get in the car I would reach over put my hand under his seat seat belt and kind of rested on his leg every
57:07
time we would drive that would be my where my hand would go because I was constantly touching him why that's what I wanted that's she where whereas he was
57:14
constantly affirming me constantly building me up with Words which meant nothing to
57:20
me because that wasn't my love language and So eventually we started to see oh
57:26
my gosh we are giving each other what we want rather than what we need we need to figure out what it is that we actually
57:32
need and then once we got that that was huge I know and he still sometimes
57:37
reminds me he'll like come into the bathroom in the morning he's like hey how do I look today honey it's like hint hint hint oh you look so handsome today
57:45
right he's like hinting for the words of affirmation and uh and sometimes I'll reach over and still you know put my
57:51
hand on his thigh when we're driving the car and he knows oh she needs another kiss on the neck right yeah yeah well
57:57
you do look great to G Robert just so yeah so I I love the I love the fact
58:05
that you brought that up actually just the fact it's your physical touch and and there's a lot of this you know
58:11
especially if we work with um the five love languages or and we work in in an area called unconscious love language
58:18
which is a little bit different but um so often times what happens is women will you know they like he only you know
58:25
he only touches me when he wants want to have sex and and by the way if you're not
58:30
having regular for whatever that means and there's some research that defines with regular regular intimate connection
58:36
with your spouse or three times a day right Robert that's what if you're not having intimate if
58:42
you're not having sex right often because hey there there's babies and you
58:48
know and you got a baby plus a baby kind of a thing and and light and you're tired and all these things then the only
58:54
time that your husband's going to connect connect with you to get his dose of of physical touch probably is going
59:00
to be sex right so he's going to miss that and and you as a mom in this
59:05
situation you're giving out you're constantly having babies pull on you and like it's this whole thing right and
59:11
it's just like I just I want people just to leave me alone and so there there's this sort of the disconnect and and
59:16
resentment can start to build build there when the only thing he's really craving is his just his love language
59:22
and it's so hard but but the better we are at sort of erning this early and
59:28
then just feeding each other's love language you know I mean honestly when and I remember this with you know we had
59:34
two two Littles you know probably one of them is breastfeeding the other one's 18 months or two right and they both want
59:41
to you sit on Mom's lap and hey I want I I want to sit on Mom's lap I want to sit
59:46
on Mom's lap right like all of those types of things right like hey honey it's been three hours so you
59:54
know I swear to you you I probably would have just been fine if she'd had just Pat me on the head like it doesn't it
1:00:01
doesn't take much if she'd had just take a second and held me like that probably would have fixed that right so sometimes
1:00:07
we're not talking right like you said the sex isn't necessarily the thing it's
1:00:12
really that physical connection and usually within each partnership there's somebody who depends on physical
1:00:18
connection yeah and there's the other person who probably really likes words of affirmation and and if you're the
1:00:23
people listening trying to figure out which one they are just figure out the way you like to give gifts and if your
1:00:28
and if your gift is to write letters long poems and things like that you're most likely you like to hear words right
1:00:36
and if you're gift you know and if you want to give out experiences or if you're going to give somebody a coupon for a massage then right then you
1:00:42
probably like physical touch yeah and what would you recommend if a guy's listening now like how do they what's
1:00:48
the best way to communicate that right because we we we didn't have a fight but we didn't not have a fight about it when
1:00:54
we were you know kind of working through this this stuff and and and it becomes something that it's it's a little touchy
1:01:00
you know we've been married for almost 30 years and we still have issues talking about sex and communicating
1:01:06
about sex and I think that's fairly common um but how do how would a guy communicate that with his wife to say
1:01:12
look you know I'm and because it's you guys are rare right to have a a wife that's physical touch and and husband
1:01:19
that's words of affirmation that tends to be reversed in statistically but if
1:01:25
the guy's like you know I need to communicate this because my wife thinks all I want to use her for is sex how do
1:01:30
I communicate that it's not about that so I know charlot's got a great answer and we could do a whole another
1:01:37
show about communicating about sex yeah needs we need to do that we need to do
1:01:42
another episode about that we'll do one that's fine we love that charl always says it's her favorite topic but um it
1:01:49
is so here's the thing as guys we don't want to be seen as weak
1:01:56
that's that just generally speaking broad strokes and and if we don't want to be seen as weak then we're not really
1:02:01
going to spend time talking about what we need our job really is like if if we if we back it out to the you know to the
1:02:09
to the tacit conversation that my grandfather had with me um because I didn't have a dad around right you know
1:02:16
the only thing he told me was my highest and best goal was to be a dad was to support my family that was it and
1:02:22
support my family meant I'm taking care of stuff around the house and making sure that every is comfortable and wellfed I'm making sure that you know
1:02:28
I'm earning money right and he IE forgoing his own needs yeah IE never never once was there any conversation in
1:02:34
there about making sure that my needs were met because as a guy our needs come
1:02:40
third fifth sixth seven right and honestly right like I mean from
1:02:45
everything from Women and Children First you know they're getting off the plane or the bus or whatever else to make sure everybody's safe even if I got to jump
1:02:52
in front of a moving car on the crosswalk like all those things like my needs aren't as important as my family's
1:02:57
needs so how do we translate that from this masculine energy into like honey I
1:03:04
I really just need you to touch me on my back or my arm or can you hold my hand
1:03:11
and then sort of a little bit worried that the the judgment is going to come
1:03:16
like you wuss like what do you need somebody to hold for no so no that's our inner dialogue Michelle that's my inner
1:03:23
dialogue if I tell her that I need something I if it wasn't her and it was somebody
1:03:28
at work I'd be called out yeah yeah I'd be
1:03:34
called out for being weak and being a wuss like right and so we don't so as a result because 90% of the time we're
1:03:41
really not at home that much right we're in we're in this this world where that's pretty hard on us we don't get to talk
1:03:48
about what our needs are and so we don't we just shut it down until unfortunately
1:03:55
a blow up a blow up or or in an unfortunate situation somebody meets
1:04:01
their needs other than their wife right right somebody's spending time asking
1:04:07
them about what their needs are in a safe environment and then that's this is
1:04:12
what happens to relationships we're really big on training couples how to have conversations about their needs and
1:04:20
how at our core we all have the same basic human needs we all have a need for
1:04:25
sust we all have a need for empathy we all have a need for love for connection
1:04:31
like you know there's there's a number of things but he's no different than I am and when we can have empathy and see
1:04:37
each other as having the same needs that we have we can start to have conversations about both of our needs
1:04:45
and that doesn't mean that one person ever needs to forego their own needs in order to meet the needs of their partner
1:04:51
there's always a way there's always a way to find a solution a win-win where both people can get their needs met we
1:04:58
just have to start talking about our needs and it there's certain things that we are trained to do that we're kind of
1:05:05
taught even educated to do that are not conducive for getting our needs met we're sort of indoctrinated with the
1:05:12
idea that we need to use criticism to get our needs met or blame or insults or make demands instead of
1:05:20
requests but when we can teach people the language of love and the language of needs and the Lang anguage to be able to
1:05:26
communicate our needs we actually really enjoy helping each other get our needs
1:05:31
met as long as we avoid those criticisms and insults and demands we love to help
1:05:37
each other meet our needs we want to it's when we've done those other things and resentment has set in because we've
1:05:44
made demands of each other and we've stepped on each other's autonomy and we've used criticism and contempt and
1:05:50
now it's made it really hard for me to want to help you to get your needs met if that those things have been going on but when we can pull those things out
1:05:57
and communicate hey this is what I'm feeling I'm feeling really disconnected
1:06:02
and lonely and I miss you and I love spending time with you and what I'd really like for us to do is spend a
1:06:08
romantic night together and or go out on a date or I'd love to have sex with you
1:06:13
and just be with you tonight would that be okay with you if we're making requests and we're doing in a way that
1:06:20
isn't critical we want to help each other meet our needs so we just need to learn the communicate in the Lang
1:06:25
anguage of speaking um in a certain way that is conducive for getting our needs
1:06:32
met yeah I always say if I if I do everything I can to meet her needs and she does everything she can to meet my
1:06:38
needs guess everybody's needs get met it's kind of this this kind magic equation but well and talking the way
1:06:45
that you put that there too is that that makes as you're saying that I'm just thinking like that makes the person feel
1:06:50
special too because to know like I'm the one person that can meet that need that can feel like that that that instead of
1:06:57
like you said instead of being criticized about it you're suddenly like it kind of lifts you up you're like oh wow okay that he needs that from me
1:07:03
because I'm know one that keep that so yeah I like that I mean think of the difference right I could come in and say
1:07:09
you know you've been really selfish and you haven't given me any time this week and you know I you are this you are this
1:07:18
you are that right and I want sex well I'm sorry that's not GNA work but if
1:07:23
you're like but if if I come in and I'm like hey honey we've been both really busy with work and you know we've
1:07:30
recorded like three podcasts this week and we haven't had very much time for each other and I miss you and I just
1:07:36
need to connect with you I need to feel loved and I I have this need for connection right now you know could we
1:07:41
could we go play yeah yeah that sounds very different from you're a selfish Pig who
1:07:48
never gives me any time or attention exactly yes it's all in the framing
1:07:54
absolutely I love it well I want to be respectful of your time and I I would absolutely can I ask just real
1:08:01
quick to know what what NLP is we cannot leave this without what is NLP it's such
1:08:08
a good question right so NLP is is just a a modality that actually pulls from a
1:08:13
lot of different modalities it pulls from marriage and family therapy from hypnosis from um lots of different it's
1:08:20
called neurolinguistic programming and it's really the language of the mind and it helps us to be able to figure out
1:08:27
where our blocks are where our um where we're stuck and figure out the reason
1:08:33
why and help to make those shifts so it's a lot of mindset work um and reprogramming the mind which is our
1:08:39
super quantum computer to be able to get the results that we want to get in any area of Life uh but it it pulls a lot
1:08:46
from cognitive behavioral therapy marriage and family therapy hypnosis a lot of different modalities so my
1:08:52
favorite way to describe what NLP does when Charlotte talks about mind mind set is assume so we're going to just take
1:08:57
you back and we're going to we're going to sort of sort of give you this experience assume that when you were five the first time that you you didn't
1:09:04
have dogs in your family um and you went over to your friend's house and you pet the dog and the dog bit you right now
1:09:11
you're first interaction with dogs is all dogs are mean and they're going to bite me and you spent the rest of your
1:09:16
mid teen years um not really wanting to be around dogs because I had a bad
1:09:21
experience with a dog right and then you know maybe you're in your mid teens or your 20s and you get over it and you
1:09:27
reach down to pet another dog or the next thing next time you run into a dog essentially the negative experience in
1:09:33
dog bites you right so now you've you've made a decision in your life that dogs are dangerous and something to avoid and
1:09:40
now you've had a re reinforcing event that has now made that decision your empathy for all things on four legs
1:09:47
that are dogs has gone down because now you don't like them because the only thing they're good for is biting you
1:09:52
right and and you know and now everybody else is saying okay well um you know all
1:09:58
dogs are bad and you know this is in your head right you and you can't be convinced otherwise because
1:10:04
unconsciously you've already made a decision unconsciously subconsciously and you've already reinforced that
1:10:09
decision with another event so now every time somebody says we should go look at Puppies You're like nope don't want a
1:10:14
dog don't need a dog and you don't really know why you don't want a dog or need a dog they're like well puppies are sweet look they li My Hand nope don't
1:10:21
want a dog so you have this unconscious programming running in the background that's already telling you about what
1:10:26
dogs are now relate that to relate that to relationships why does that matter in
1:10:32
relationships well the majority of our triggers right what are triggers in relationship when we get set off set off
1:10:38
by our partner what it really is it's an echo from the past it's a it's a scab
1:10:44
that we have from a wound that was earlier in our life that we've just like a wound from a dog right and so if we
1:10:51
can go back and neutralize some of those things that happened to us ear on kind of heal up some of those past
1:10:57
experiences and traumas we don't have to necessarily react to our spouse or I.E a
1:11:02
dog because that's just a metaphor for the work we do and you know the the truth is that the majority of problems
1:11:09
people are having in their relationship are coming from those primary families those things that happened early on in
1:11:14
life and so we get we have some tools to be able to rewrite that
1:11:20
cool yeah well yeah I for sure want to have you guys back one of my topics is
1:11:26
sex also just saying no there there's an amazing there's an amazing ability to be
1:11:33
able to be vulnerable and have a conversation around having your needs met yeah and just and just exploring
1:11:40
exploring your needs right and there and and we have a you know an interesting story about about that as well right you
1:11:47
know being raised and born Christian it's um it's we're not supposed to talk about it right yeah well but but there
1:11:54
is there's a lot of that pressure right of between sex is bad and and not at all
1:12:02
to you know everyone else is enjoying it and you can't understand why and so and and again you're bringing all that into
1:12:08
this relationship all of our experiences come in our relationship and then we bundle them together and then we don't know why it is we don't we're not
1:12:15
comfortable or don't want to talk about the things we don't want to talk about so that's just a teaser for you I love
1:12:22
that I love that well you guys are awesome I really appreciate you coming how do we learn more about what you guys going on Mastery your marage podcast.com
1:12:29
right is that the the one website but yeah we're just we're really active on social as well so if you want to come
1:12:35
over and and find us on Instagram it's master your marriage on Instagram and then we have our podcast we talk a lot
1:12:41
about needs over there too so master your marriage podcast if you want to take a listen most of our episodes are are short and quick and try to give
1:12:47
value in 20 minutes to 30 minutes and yeah if we can help you out let us know yeah that in the website there's you
1:12:53
know as always a contact form on the site there's I think there's a couple courses on there and some other things that are just going to be you know
1:12:59
coming soon and information about a retreat if we we're going to end up doing one this year yeah yeah well the
1:13:06
best part about this podcast is meeting fun interesting people that we connect with AB this has been an absolute Joy so
1:13:11
I really appreciate you guys thanks you guys it was a joy to meet you both yeah if you're looking to really
1:13:18
maximize your life and become the man you were made to be head over to maxed out man.com
1:13:25
and get your journey started today