Episode 53 - Empowerment Unleashed: Kenny D'Cruz on Transforming Challenges into Strength

In this episode of 'Maxed Out Man', the host interviews Kenny D'Cruz, known for his work in men's personal development. They delve into topics such as overcoming challenges, personal growth, and strategies for emotional health. Kenny shares insights from his journey and advice for listeners seeking to improve their lives.

Highlights:

1. Introduction and Background of Kenny D'Cruz
2. Overcoming Personal Challenges through Resilience
3. Strategies for Enhancing Emotional Health
4. Insights from Kenny's Personal and Professional Journey
5. Practical Advice for Personal Development
6. Concluding Reflections and Motivational Takeaways

Suggested Chapters:

1. Introduction to Kenny D'Cruz - Start Time: 00:00
2. Overcoming Personal Challenges - Start Time: 05:00
3. Strategies for Emotional Health - Start Time: 15:00
4. Kenny's Journey and Insights - Start Time: 25:00
5. Advice for Personal Development - Start Time: 35:00
6. Conclusion and Takeaways - Start Time: 45:00

To learn more about Maxed Out Man and to maximize your potential, visit www.maxedoutman.com or connect with us on Social Media:

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Transcript

0:00
Welcome to maxed out man helping you
0:06
become the man you were made to be hey guys it's Kevin Davis from the
0:11
maxed out man podcast this is episode number 53 I'm here with Kenny I was here
0:17
with hey guys it's Kevin Davis from the max down men podcast this is episode number 53 my tongue's not working quite
0:23
well today but today I'm here with Kenny mamarella de Cruz and uh I'm super excited for him I'm going to go through
0:29
some his bio to get a little bit of background let him fill in the gaps uh Kenny's from a child Refugee in Uganda
0:36
navigating PTSD battling OCD to aiding dying men along Mother Teresa in Kolkata
0:42
his journey is both a inspiring and educative Kenny's been a beacon in personal development and pioneering
0:48
groups such a uh since the mid 90s his Amazon number one selling ebook online men's group success and is not for
0:55
profit Community interest company aimed to make men's groups as widespread as
1:00
12-step programs Kenny I appreciate you being here uh it's middle of the afternoon for you in the UK we're here
1:06
early uh in the in the great state of Montana in the middle of nowhere so uh I
1:12
appreciate you coming on board I'm super excited to talk about this I was looking at some of your stuff today uh some of
1:18
the stuff you sent and just some of the stuff on your website you do some great work and I'm very excited to to sit and have a conversation with
1:25
you thank you and good on you being able to pronounce my name what I
1:30
a mouthful it took me six times to give it a shot right well well Mar Morella is my wife's
1:38
name I Married an Italian woman so that's where that comes from and deu my family yeah so it's it's it's crazy but
1:47
um wow Christmas and New Year out of the way what absolute Bonkers that was he
1:55
how was yours it was great it's uh we actually had a white Christmas which we we uh we weren't sure where we're going
2:01
to get I have my 24y old daughter here so uh that's always a good time I've got two daughters one didn't come home but
2:07
uh it it was a great time so um for sure yeah we we're coming out of an interesting time if you want I kind of
2:14
gave you the basic I kind of give the basic bio can you give me can you fill in the gaps on some of those for the
2:19
audience just so we kind of have a basis uh from that oh that's a funny one I wonder
2:27
which angle to take I remember um when I wish that all my mental health issues
2:34
were qualifications because there's OCD
2:40
bdd you know and so it goes on and then I had tette and trick Mania and what do
2:47
you call it disc calula I used to Grunt and twitch and pull my hair and pick it my skin it it's
2:54
all PTSD type stuff I guess Eating Disorders I wanted to kill my myself
3:00
when I was a child so my parents had one less mouth to feed uh once we left
3:05
refugee camp so it was all pretty messy really my basket was a very weak basket
3:11
and I was a right Basket Case um but in those days I didn't know what was wrong
3:18
with me apart from there's something wrong with me and I'd better hide it there were no fancy names and it was all
3:25
undiagnosed um I'm 59 now so this was in the 70s when it kicked off quite a long
3:32
time ago um and luckily because of my
3:37
embarrassment the only thing that people could see is when I twitched or granted or things like that and that wasn't
3:43
forever that was for a shorter time I would say my main addiction was overthinking and surviving
3:52
second guessing so I would avoid emotions by thinking I would would avoid
3:59
any trouble or anything bad from happening by second guessing and I
4:05
literally did not exist so I had a big
4:10
shadow that I carried around and I dare not look at and I had no idea who I was
4:18
or how I was or anything and the object of the exercise my purpose was literally
4:25
survival survival of myself and survival of my family and I guess it was pretty much around
4:33
the time I remember when my father said to me I was seven maybe 8 and he said um
4:40
you may never see me again um you need to take care of your mother and brother
4:46
and in a way that's when my life went on work um he was left in Uganda we were
4:55
all in hiding we were on the death list so he was left in Uganda and and they were waiting to pick him up meanwhile
Overcoming Personal Challenges - Start Time
5:01
meanwhile coincidentally he was smuggled to Italy uh where he helped to run fre
5:07
refugee camps and he or organized a hunger strike and did all sorts of heroic things as my father did but yeah
5:14
I was a right basket case and um my shadow did follow me
5:20
around I started holding men's groups about 23 years ago when I came back to
5:27
the UK after being away I immigrated I I moved to Fiji I ended up living in
5:33
Sydney I held a natural health center there and I started holding groups there I traveled a lot I did two months work
5:40
with Mother Teresa on two different years one of them was over Christmas and New Year which was pretty amazing um and
5:47
I was free I was totally free apart from the [ __ ] that was going on in my head
5:53
and all my fears and all my fantasies and my survival so I came back to the UK
6:00
and much as I was surrounded by the men I loved the most I felt lonely and the
6:07
weird thing is I missed them more when I was with them most of them than when I
6:13
was abroad because things moved on they'd moved on they became addicts basically um I mean so when you started
6:21
these menx love whatever it was and sorry that was that was them growing up
6:28
in the five is and it's not WR or bad it's pretty much what everyone was doing I guess so yeah that's where my first
6:37
men group came from um I'm curious so you had said that you were you know with
6:42
Mother Teresa you went to Sydney you had your own business there and then you went back to the UK you and you were
6:48
doing men's groups in the in in Sydney as well in Sydney I started um I called
6:56
them hanging out they were just groups for people to hang out and people there
7:02
were men and women different Generations different people would bring not just
7:07
their friends um they would bring their parents and children and it became a huge community and it was really good
7:15
fun sometimes we'd have a speaker for a short time we'd meditate in the beginning for a short time there'd be
7:21
food so it was proper community and it was conscious it was very conscious not
7:27
overdoing the spiritual bypass stuff or anything like that but good conscious
7:32
people a lot of people fell in love and you know it was just wonderful but it was mixed um and I came back to the UK
7:42
uh because I was working on a project and I don't know I was following Life by
7:48
that stage in my life I was following life it was no longer I need to perform
7:55
I need to climb any ladder pretty much all my dreams came true before I left the UK and I had a choice of marrying my
8:03
girlfriend who was wonderful um and growing my business that was wonderful
8:09
and probably becoming rich and fat and lazy and a little bit
8:14
pointless and I thought you know the thing that's missing from my life is
8:19
sunshine so that's why I left and as I was
8:24
um evaluating my situation what came up as well is I
8:30
moved to the UK I had a British passport my family had British passports we moved here because we had to not because we
8:36
chose to and I thought I wonder where I will choose to live I wonder where I
8:42
belong I wonder who I belong with um and everyone else thought my my relationship
8:49
was the dream relationship and it was but I as I said before it kind of felt
8:55
like my life didn't quite include me everything was ticked off off the list
9:01
same as most of my clients everything's ticked off the list they've done it all they've got it all but what they lacked
9:08
was purpose passion and a sense of self a personal power not power over anyone but
9:16
just being in power being authentic being real being available to life so I
9:22
gave it all all up for that and I followed and if I didn't give my life
9:28
back to where ever I need to be whatever I need to do I'd probably remain in
9:33
control thinking fixing surviving and groundhog daying going around because
9:41
control will mean I will only allow myself or my inner protector will only
9:47
allow me to have what I've already had because anything else irrespective of
9:54
how wonderful would be dangerous so I literally needed to topple my inner
10:01
protector from being in control and to stop a life of of survival and to let
10:07
the man in me show up and listen to my protector and take part in life move
10:13
into a bigger life so all of that took place mostly through coincidence through
10:21
faith beyond my designs uh same with moving back to the UK and I realized you know I was
10:28
supposed to be here for two years uh to basically see all the people I love the
10:33
most in the world and say yep I love you and I'm out of here I'm moving back to Sydney never happened um but while I was
10:42
here it was shocking that the people that I loved had changed had got
10:49
distracted or maybe it's my pakhe headedness and it's like i' had all these adventures and surely you should
10:54
have done something too or something like that but irrespective of our doing I needed to be met my being needed to be
11:03
with my best friends like we were 5 years previously hanging out and having a great time so I literally got a dozen
11:12
or so of my closest male friends in my lounge and said I don't know what a
11:17
man's group is I've never been to a men's group but I need to be met at depth and I'll still come raving with
11:23
you and stuff like that but if it's only those distractions then I'm probably
11:29
going to have to Chuck you cuz it's not enough you're
11:36
out and it was freaky for them because most of a lot of them hadn't met each other and you know I didn't realize how
11:45
strong the class system in the UK is until I left um because it's just not the same
11:52
elsewhere so I brought my friends together and because I'm foreign um I
11:57
sound relatively middle class and educated and all of that um I've got friends who are upper class and lower
12:04
class and God knows every class outer class um and for them to be in a room together was a freak Show in itself they
12:11
didn't know where to put themselves they never met people like some of my other friends but it worked something about it
12:19
worked and people stayed and came back um and told other people and I had to
12:26
move it out of my home out of my lounge get some ground rules together now it's
12:31
like 23 years later thousands of people have been coming to the groups um online
12:39
we've been here every day since lockdown I've trained quite you know way over a
12:46
hundred people um a lot of whom have been coaches therapists Etc and anyone
12:52
who wants to pick up the tools don't need to be a professional to hold groups for their own use um and for their
13:01
communities however they wish to use the tools then the ebook um I put the ebook
13:07
out in um over lockdown because um it's like it's time that people have this
13:13
it's you know we were literally in a war zone um actually okay here's a funny am
13:20
I speaking too much should I tell you good keep going you're good
13:26
yeah can you hear me okay like it
13:31
again I've got you you go you're back there I've I've got you I I have all that recorded so you're good no when you
13:38
you said am I speaking too much and I said no keep going so
13:44
um you said when we were in lockdown when we were in lockdown yeah so the way the online
13:51
men's group started is a few days before we went on lockdown um I went into
13:58
isolation uh a bloke a man who I work with um had the symptoms and he said look I think
14:04
I've got covid might be an idea for you to go into lockdown so I isolated and I
14:09
I kind of like discovered zoom and while I was on Zoom pretty much day and night
14:15
the weird thing is I kept listening for gunfire and I kept looking out of the
14:21
window to see the military I expected to see the military and when I didn't hear the gunfire it felt like oh this is the
14:28
silence between the shots like the silence you know when the fridge stops and suddenly it's like oh I didn't
14:34
realize the fridge was going it was that and then it's like what on Earth is going on and I had weird feelings inside
14:40
but I kind of ignored them I got I had a lot to do and then I realized that these
14:45
weird feelings they they were flashbacks and when I was in Africa there was
14:50
curfew I lived there was a lot of gunfire where we used to live near uh the old president ID mean um and and I'd
14:59
flashed back to when we were in hiding and we weren't safe and that's what
Strategies for Emotional Health - Start Time
15:05
isolation did for me a few days later we went into lockdown and I thought well if
15:11
I flash back a lot of other men are going to flash back and this is dangerous um they'll be flashing back to
15:18
when they went to um to boarding school or when whenever it is that they were
15:25
isolated or restricted or even even if they're not flashing back they're going
15:31
to want to lash out because where does this energy go you know this is weird so
15:36
it's because of my flashbacks that I thought we need a place to be able to
15:42
speak things out rather than lash out on other people or lashing on ourselves
15:48
with dodgy thoughts and feelings drinking drugging whatever it is that people might do overp porning whatever
15:55
it's like we need to be able to speak things out and until I launched the
16:01
online groups um that that run every day still um which have cha saved a lot of
16:08
lives changed so many lives until I I I launched them working with the dying
16:14
people in Kolkata was the most useful I have been in my life but the way that
16:19
the lives have changed just coming into groups people come once a week once a month every day really doesn't matter
16:26
it's been amazing for us to be in a room together in a zoom room and just hang
16:32
out be heard and get real not carry the baggage learn from each other's
16:39
experiences non hierarchical no one needs to sell anything or fix anything or save anyone but the depth that we
16:47
meet each other is profound and to be let into people's lives the way people
16:52
get to know each other and to watch people change and grow the way that the men show up is is off the scale this is
17:01
the most useful I have ever been that's fantastic and I mean I think
17:07
that so interestingly enough where I'm at I don't have the
17:13
same reference point uh in terms of the lockdown thing um the closest that we
17:19
got in the US I think is probably California um to to the level of lockdowns that they did in the UK it was
17:27
just kind of you know I'm in the middle of rural Montana so we had you know a couple of weeks where it was you know
17:32
lock down and stuff and then basically do whatever you want so right we're we're a little bit different that way
17:39
it's more of a western you know Cowboy us mentality and and honestly it didn't
17:45
really affect anything it was the same you know mortality numbers and morbidity numbers and those kind of things so you
17:51
know that's that's a whole other podcast but I'm I'm interested in the mechanics
17:57
first of all go back to you had said something about personal power versus strength I think you were kind of
18:03
differentiating I thought that was interesting that you made you were talking about power versus kind of
18:09
personal strength and differentiate between those two was it about um being in power
18:18
rather than over power over other people yeah for me when I'm in power when I'm
18:25
in my power that's me being that's me being authentic it's not overthinking it's not showing off it's
18:33
not toning it down it's just being real it's being honest about who I am right now and for me that's simply in power it
18:41
might need to be more Yang sometimes more out if there's a reason for me to
18:46
be aggressive if there's danger to shout to do something then fine I'll express
18:52
it that way if it needs to be more Yin if if I need to be sensitive if I'm with
18:58
someone in pain then that is also power being able to feel my feelings and be
19:04
with someone in their pain rather than tried to save them and fix them because it's too uncomfortable for me to be
19:10
around pain but my power is authenticity where I would say old-fashioned power is
19:16
power over other people in fact I'd say the difference between a man and a boy
19:23
is a man can be in power and Empower others where a boy generally needs to be
19:31
somewhere up the PE pecking order competing rather than being able to collaborate rather than being able to
19:38
collaborate um listening rather than just having to make a noise um knowing
19:45
when to pass the ball rather than having to score all the time there's a very you
19:50
know for me the difference between a man and a boy is the man includes the feminine aspects the feminine side and
19:57
is able to tap into both rather than a boy avoiding all of that or maybe
20:04
overdoing all of that as a different type of trip but it's usually out of sync and proving
20:12
something surviving reacting rather than living and
20:18
responding so yeah Power for me is just presence and
20:24
connection we had a discussion the other night with uh my 20 four-year-old you know and and she's living in a different
20:31
world from a in a masculinity standpoint than I do both as a woman and as a young
20:36
woman and kind of we're in a weird situation right now with with
20:41
masculinity and young men becoming men and differentiating be between men and
20:46
boys and I think that's a great way to put it we had the discussion because because she leans towards like
20:54
masculinity in that toxic way and have a post behind my head that says
20:59
masculinity isn't toxic some men just sucks so which which is kind of a joke
21:05
you know but it but it means that some men are just not in the using masculinity in the way that it should be
21:11
defined and we were talking about the the ideal that you know her idea of
21:18
masculinity is you know men objectifying women men trying to have power over
21:23
women all of all of these things and I and we were discussing and I was trying to EXP La that and my wife actually was
21:30
the same she was like that's that's not what a man does that's not masculinity
21:35
that is someone you know really adulterating masculinity and calling
21:40
themselves a man when really to your point they're just a boy exactly there
21:46
is nothing masculine about that but I wonder how you feel about you know the toxic masculinity is the unruly boy um I
21:55
wonder how you feel about toxic femin femininity which is something that's very rarely talked about and I feel
22:02
toxic femininity is something that can crumble a man at from 20
22:08
Paces yeah 100% yeah can you can you just Define that a little bit more and then maybe I can answer the question a
22:13
little bit better for me toxic masculinity is Yang energy that's
22:19
bullying um or you know overpowering where toxic femininity is Yin energy and
22:26
very often it's withdrawing which is abandoning or it's
22:32
criticizing which is kind of like breaking someone down and I would say a
22:37
man's greatest fear is either abandonment or
22:44
humiliation because with the criticism with the withdrawal um the man can in a split
22:51
second turn into that vulnerable boy so easily quickly triggered um and it's something that's
22:58
very rarely talked about or even um named as a
23:04
thing yeah I me you know I join I'm in a couple of different Facebook groups and one of them is basically it's it's
23:11
basically a a marriage support group and there's a ton of men in there and I can't remember the name of it but but I
23:18
was fascinated and a little bit appalled that I go in there and ultimately there
23:23
is no support for marriage whatsoever it it typically most of the voices in that
23:29
in that group are talking about my wife's a manipulating [ __ ] she's distant she hates me she won't have sex
23:36
with me all of these different things and I'm thinking wow there's something you know but it but it be it it put the
23:42
blame on the on the woman and I kind of have this gave the power to the woman by yeah gave the power to the woman and I
23:48
have a little bit of this theory that we are because we're in a situation now in
23:54
our society where we have essentially a society of a lot of weak men and weak in
24:02
terms of all of the things that you just described that we just talked about right like it's you know being in your masculine and feminine energy having
24:10
that love respect care all of those things but I but I have this theory that
24:16
the kind of genderbending roles that we have um
24:21
means puts everybody out of balance so the man's out of balance and he's more he's in a weak State then the woman is
24:28
out of balance and tries and is more in her becomes more masculine and less
24:34
feminine energy and then you end up with this and and I'm not talking about traditional gender roles right I'm
24:40
talking about kind of this partnership aspect to where if one partner is not
24:46
carrying their own weight or not being the support mechanism for the other then
24:52
that almost leads the other partner to kind of step in and try to put on this
24:57
this additional power and I feel like we're in a situation now in society where so many wives and I'll talk about
Kenny's Journey and Insights - Start Time
25:04
wives in general but women women also when they are with weak men they
25:10
almost try to put on a strong masculine energy which is really out of character
25:16
for most women and then it just kind of screws the whole thing up I don't know I don't know what you think about that I'm
25:21
it's kind of a working Theory I guess but that's so interesting I remember a good few years ago
25:28
um with clients I'm I always find and I've heard this from so many therapists
25:33
that the issues come in batches you know a batch of I don't know adops a batch of
25:40
people who've been sexually abused a batch of parents who split whatever it was and I remember having a batch of
25:46
clients where literally um all they needed to hear is to him you're allowed
25:52
to be yourself irrespective of how feminine it is uh how feminine that is
25:58
and to her you're allowed to be yourself irrespective of how masculine that is
26:03
and all they needed was permission to be who they are and the relationships Works without your male you have to be
26:09
masculine your female you have to be feminine and this is how it works and for me it really doesn't matter it
26:15
really doesn't matter who expresses which masculine or Fe feminine aspects
26:20
when what's more interesting to me is
26:25
why why is this an issue why have you attracted each other where is this
26:32
coming from and what I generally get people to do this in the online groups
26:37
with private clients with couples with anyone is okay we know the issue in hand
26:43
now let's breathe into the issue in hand and really feel it beyond the drama of what's going on
26:51
feel the feeling whether it's sadness or rage or helplessness or being trapped
26:57
whatever it is feel the feeling and they breathe into it and feel it and then it's like okay now take another breath
27:04
and follow the feeling back where does it take you where does the feeling take you not the story where does the feeling
27:09
take you and generally in a split second they're back at the scene of the crime
27:15
they follow the feeling back and it's where the pause button in their life is depressed with something that happened
27:21
in their childhood and that's what it's about rather than the situation in hand and
27:26
for me literally every time there's an issue maybe it could be a gift a gift of
27:34
being able to travel back into the dark shadow to see what needs releasing what
27:40
needs to be felt feel it and heal it and live beyond it so go back to the Dark
27:46
Shadow and feel it and this is again where the man or the
27:51
adult um can hold the child safe so it's not a
27:58
it's hold the child safe so here and now you're safe and the child can
28:03
feel child's pure emotion in that way pure Spirit but with a safe child you
28:08
can go back child will show you the way and the child is safe because the adults
28:14
there and it can be felt and it's almost like retrieving that broken spirited child
28:22
and with safety you have a free-spirited child in feeling it it no longer needs
28:28
to keep coming up and not only have you cleared up the dark shadow but it opens
28:34
up the gold Shadow if you're not carrying around this trauma or this restriction in your life what might life
28:43
bring and once life has brought whatever it is signs Temptations
28:51
opportunities um coincidences then will the man in you notice them and choose to move into them
29:00
to respond to them or will the protector in you see them and react to them and
29:07
shut them down because it might be good but good could be dangerous and for me the object of the
29:15
exercise is for the man in me to be present and connected for my protector to be heard
29:23
my protector shouldn't be looking after my child if my protector's looking after my child and my protector and child are
29:29
in survival limbo and I've lived my life that way that was the first half of my
29:34
life in survival in limbo putting on a brilliant show for everyone else and it
29:39
worked apart from it excluded me and it was quite pointless but you know it it
29:45
had success written all over it by other people yeah where the object of the exercise is
29:53
yeah my protector needs to be there but not running the show go so the man in me
29:59
holds the child safe now I have a free-spirited child and I can hear my
30:04
protector if my protector is heard my protector will not take my life over if
30:09
my protector is not heard then there might be danger and my protector will take over so we need to be on side
30:16
working as a team if I have a free spirited child inside of me then the
30:21
magic can really happen because then I can literally listen to Spirit or I can
30:28
listen to coincidence or I can listen to what nature brings or I can attract I'd
30:34
be putting out a very different frequency this would be safe and let's
30:39
see what life's got in store and then life can bring things for
30:45
the manime to notice and respond into otherwise it's unsafe and the protector needs to prove that it's dangerous and
30:54
recreate whatever the protector knows to to survive Groundhog
30:59
Day and is that is that I assume that that's there's some mechanics of this process like I understand the concept
31:06
but you're and I'm assuming it's a it's a relatively long process or is it how does that kind of manifest itself the
31:13
way that I do it is um either online or in the room the way that I do it is
31:19
generally to be frank one session um reorganizes re restructures everything
31:27
um and if I'm in a room then there are different chairs that people move move into if it's on zoom and they can't move
31:34
because they haven't got a laptop then I'll ask them to go and knock on the door three times or touch the window or
31:39
something and come back and I'll literally ask to speak with different parts of them I'll ask initially to
31:46
speak with their protector and the stuff that the protector has to say is generally quite profound it's the stuff
31:53
that consciously the person in front of me would not remember or would not realize and literally I hang out with
32:00
that part and then I'm back to the person I'm working with and then I might
32:05
ask to speak with the man or the emerging man or whatever it is I might ask to speak to the critic I might ask
32:12
to speak to the the sex addict or the alcoholic I might ask to speak to um
32:17
whatever percentage of the Rage that's been I don't know violent in life
32:24
because I don't need to be beaten up but I need to hang out with this part so we can understand why and what's going on
32:32
um and it's profound and I I I record the sessions because people need to see
32:38
the different posture the different presence they need to see the way their
32:43
faces changed the way their voic has changed they need to see these different parts and know them and get them and
32:48
learn how to adjust um and that session usually a session like that's two hours
32:54
long but they get it it's not a about getting it you know it's not about a
33:00
fix it's about being able to be present
33:05
with this and adjust so it's not ah my protector's taken over again I've failed
33:11
and the protector was blah blah blah it's more about ah it
33:17
slipped I can adjust and initially the protector is asked to be on S side The
33:24
Protector doesn't always agree and won't always be on side the protector's job is
33:29
that the child is safe protector's job is survival excuse me why would a protector
33:37
trust some man that showed up for five minutes or two minutes with the best intentions be here consistently prove
33:45
that you're trustworthy and then we can work together it's really profound work
33:51
it's it's just so efficient it's off the scale I mean because that's interesting
33:56
because I I think most of us some of us are better than others I'm really really good at compartmentalizing parts of my
34:02
personality so you know uh I I had some childhood stuff that went on which I've
34:08
I've I have actually dealt with over the years and i' I'm kind of coming in you know I'm 5 I just turned 51 and and I
34:15
don't you know my wife and I have been married for 28 years and you know things are wow awesome I we we you know we have
34:22
our issues like anybody else and um but you know I I think most men are actually
34:28
really good at compartmentalizing stuff it's that it's like that you know okay this is the door that has this and I
34:34
like that analogy this is the door that has this person in it this is the door that has this version of myself in it
34:40
you know all and all that so that's um that's that's a really cool way to kind
34:46
of remove and you you could analogize it you know in terms of like masks right
34:51
these are the masks that that put on in those the different masks and I think that men are so um so good at that and I
34:58
think surviving boys are so good at that men don't need to do that I would say
Advice for Personal Development - Start Time
35:06
men can include all the parts because whatever is pushed away is actually being
35:13
fed because the energy that it takes to push things away and avoid and deny things and push them in the shadow is
35:20
actually feeding things and what I learned is I need to give energy to what
35:25
I want to grow not what I want to go and if something's not not going to go then
35:32
I need to give it some attention and get it in order um I need to listen to it so
35:37
it stop shouting and taking my my my life over and then I need to be in a position where things are in order um
35:45
and it's almost like a central processing unit so it all comes back to the man and I can delegate to my rage if
35:52
if that's relevant I can delegate to being very soft and gentle if there's a
35:59
stressed out child um I can delegate to doing my admin or fixing something I can
36:05
delegate to different parts but very often um because of whatever issues
36:12
certain parts will take over and it might be the the rebel it it could be anything um and the number of people
36:19
I've I've come across where they didn't realize where they dug their heels in
36:24
and there was a part inside of them that's said I am not letting this life move forward until I have been
36:31
acknowledged my heels are dark in nothing's going on it's like a kid having a tantrum that is not going to
36:38
comply and to be frank there are times when people have remembered certain
36:45
abuse that they forgot in their daily lives they couldn't afford to remember
36:51
but during a session that part will speak and not want Revenge necessarily
36:58
or to own the life but we'll need a space and to be heard and for things to
37:03
be in order so the life can properly move forward and things can be recalibrated balanced out and it it
37:11
literally sets lives free but it it is initially you know the big fear is out
37:19
of control and I would say it's very male to go into the head and fix things
37:25
mhm earlier on when we had uh trouble with the
37:30
technology I noticed that even though it wasn't my fault there was a part of me
37:36
inside that went how do I fix this God not only how do I fix it it was worse than that it was absolute core it was
37:42
like ah what have I done wrong I'm going to be in trouble I'm going to be told
37:48
off I'm going to be abandoned I'm going to be humiliated and it took a split second it had nothing to do with me it's
37:55
an instinct it took a split second and then I could adjust from that now most
38:00
people don't even realize that's going on it's normality and this is where decent people second
38:07
guess and then they become compulsive liars and no one ever knows what's going
38:13
on because everyone's second guessing what everyone else is going to be thinking and feeling and how they'll react etc etc and then it's just a soup
38:21
of lies and there's no depth and there's no connection and no one knows what's going on at all it's just
38:28
survival that is not the way to live a life right there is nothing real there
38:34
and my decent family you know nice Catholic Family um
38:41
I didn't realized that the issue was a fear of intimacy boundaries are for bad people
38:49
my family thought boundaries were barriers and it would exclude people um boundaries are in intimate places where
38:56
people can meet and once there's a meeting then they can change then the
39:02
merry dance of relationship can start but first there needs to be a meeting not Perpetual second guessing so I'm
39:09
safe and no one's going to be angry or no that's not going to go anywhere another line that that we use in the
39:15
groups is we name it rather than shame it or blame it so I will name my
39:21
feelings I'll name my fears I'll name what's going on otherwise I could blame
39:27
it on the Catholic Church ID Armine my parents how dare they not be enlightened
39:33
before they had me the weather the F Financial Pol I could name I could blame
39:38
anything and I could go to therapy forever finding people to blame I could
39:43
[ __ ] to people and you know the the biggest most solid groups are the victim
39:49
clubs where we're all victims of the same thing and the victim's always in control and man I could join so many
39:55
victim clubs and just blame and blame and blame and never shift what's the
40:01
point of that yeah or Shame Shame has run the lives of men and boys and I
40:08
would say such efficient parenting old-fashioned parenting is all about shame the boy and the boy will comply
40:16
break the boy Spirit humiliate the boy in front of his friends threaten the boy
40:21
that's the way the boy will be controllable because I can't cope with all this energy and testosterone it's
40:29
like that is so damaging because it doesn't go away until people really have
40:36
the courage and the space and some awareness that there is such a thing as work that can be done most people don't
40:43
even know what's going on and can't blame them for not knowing so yeah I think that's it's
40:51
funny that you bring up the technology stuff that we had earlier because of course my inner feeling is I've so I
40:57
have two podcasts I've done over a hundred episodes between the two of them and I'm thinking okay I have to make
41:03
excuses because this makes me look really unprofessional he's not going to want to continue this can we reschedule all of
41:10
those things and so that's that interfere of me not like uh not
41:15
appearing to be as good as what I'm pretending to be right that's kind of
41:21
that those are kind of some of those feelings that you have it was beyond both of our control we have you we're
41:27
we're thousands of miles from each other there was some technology issue who knows if it's a browser issue a camera
41:33
issue whatever we addressed it with within just a few minutes but you know
41:39
just like you're you're like well is it my fault and I'm like this is totally my fault I look like a complete idiot you
41:45
know so that's it's funny how how quickly we go to those those places
41:51
right it's also quite grave and I'm
41:56
thinking about children and how children can blame themselves for parents not
42:02
going on not getting on someone dying anything and everything children blame
42:10
themselves I blamed myself for the most ridiculous things I'm lucky enough to remember um and it carries on so when it
42:18
went wrong it's like your inner child and my inner child were both triggered
42:23
and we both went into shame and panic and be blamed ourselves how does it feel now that both
42:31
of us has named how we felt how does it feel to you yeah it's I mean it's it's
42:36
comforting and it's relieving I think is kind of there there's a sense of release and a sense of relieving and we're
42:43
talking about something fairly basic right it's we didn't you know there you
42:48
know there are no guns outside but the emotions behind it are
42:54
so powerful if I was a different type of person then I might think right well I'm
43:01
going to just stay away from this person for the rest of my life otherwise I might even demonize him and the reason
43:07
I'll do that is because he judges me he hates me he's going to get me back he's
43:12
going to ruin my reputation I'd better run away from him or I'd better make it up I'd better really prove that I'm a
43:18
good guy meanwhile it's like there's nothing that happened but being able to talk about it like this I like you more
43:25
I feel closer to you I trust you we can meet at this depth we can break things down rather than just you know being
43:32
professional and showing off it's like this is showing up right and this is
43:38
meeting and this is where it matters imagine simple things or big
43:43
things having the honesty I wonder in your your groups of she the the the
43:50
marriage groups or whatever marriage on the Rocks groups if people shut up and told the truth rather than she's this
43:55
and and she's that and it's like well of course she doesn't want to have sex with you a whining boy who's angry is not
44:03
sexy and she needs to be safe tell the truth and show up yeah because I mean you know I I
44:10
can't even comment on most of those because a lot of them I'm like all right so you're telling one side of this story
44:16
you know you're in the meantime you haven't left the couch you know in the last in the last three weeks you've been
44:22
unemployed for four months look you know the whole joke on vacation look Holding Out for a management position you're you
44:30
know you're angry and all those it's like what is your part of that and how
44:35
do you identify that and how do you work work through that versus again like you're saying the the easy thing is is
44:41
to blame other people uh for sure hey I do wan to I want to be respectful of
44:46
your time but we were talking at the beginning before we got started about you're you're writing this article on
44:52
loneliness uh as we're recording this I think this is the four 4th of January this will come out in a month or so um
44:59
we have just come out of the holiday season for and for so many this is one of the hardest season um of loneliness
Conclusion and Takeaways - Start Time
45:08
and it's and it's loneliness surrounded by people right like you know there's this I imagine this scene of this big
45:15
Christmas dinner Thanksgiving dinner um and you have a person surrounded by 20
45:20
people but they're also probably the the loneliest person the loneliest guy in the room right exactly and then there
45:27
are the choices of oh my God this hurts how how how have I turned into that
45:33
rebellious little boy again just because I'm with my parents I know I'll eat
45:38
myself crazy then all my energy can go into digesting food and I won't have any
45:44
I won't be able to feel a thing I'll just numb out by e oh more alcohol yep we're supposed to license to drink let's
45:52
eat and drink and you know all of that in order to not feel in order to not
45:57
feel or to be back either with the family or with friends and it's like
46:02
well how do I get on with these people how do I get these people to like me do
46:08
they like me who do I need to be how do I how do I sell out on myself so I don't
46:16
make other people uncomfortable how do I manage everyone's
46:21
panic and everyone's fear so it doesn't kick off and it doesn't turn into aale
46:28
how do I take care of the weakest one how do I get away from this mad house and these crazy people and so it goes it
46:36
is it can be so lonely um same with I was speaking with a a a friend recently
46:44
um who also works with a lot of celebrities uh and how lonely that is
46:49
and I was saying to him um most celebrities I know and it looks like it's the same with him they all have
46:56
this one kind of old friend or something you know the whole world wants to be
47:02
with them because they're famous or whatever um but they don't really have friends very often people want something
47:09
which is tragic it's absolutely tragic but there's this one old friend and this
47:15
old special chosen friend will be debriefed with I went here I saw this one I did that whatever but the friend
47:21
won't be allowed in their life to any of the parties to anything it's like the secret friend this one person that they
47:28
yeah that they can exist with that they can debrief with but you know it's same
47:34
with the the business um uh groups and seminars I run it's Lonely at the Top
47:40
it's Lonely at the Top because people want something loneliness it's a huge
47:47
huge thing for males and to be frank I feel this is one of the reason the
47:52
reasons that podcasts are so popular because it's like well I'll choose the
47:57
company I keep and I can switch it on and off and I've heard this with porn as well it's like it's too scary to go and
48:04
have sex and to find a girlfriend and to get rejected and I'm not sure if the Equipment Works anyway I can just pull
48:10
the plug on whatever porn I'm watching and I'm in total control and so much of it is controlled in survival and you
48:17
have a menu right there's a like it's the Burger King have it your way you know you can you literally can choose
48:24
you know any quote unquote partner that you that you think you want versus trying to build intimacy with someone
48:30
you know like in my case 28 and a half years right and it I I will say it gets
48:36
better every day so like that's a you know that's something that can be amazing but to your and conscious
48:43
relationships do all of them and you know I kind of
48:49
felt like in the old days when I was a Survivor everyone should like me and I
48:55
should include everyone No Boundaries um doesn't work that way it's
49:00
impossible and it's a big sellout but going back to the male and loneliness stuff I think um these days especially
49:10
what freaks me out is the way that boys and men um will consult the
49:19
internet and they'll they'll look to solve their problems um same as the men's group so many people show up with
49:26
what's wrong with me and how do I do me right and people go to the Internet what's wrong with me how do I do me
49:31
right meanwhile it's there's nothing wrong with you it's more like you need to be you find out who you
49:38
are and let go of who you no longer need to be and don't do yourself right just
49:44
be it's about undoing be the leftovers let go of who you no longer need to be
49:50
and have space to change and grow but the way that people turn to the internet and then they're the algorithms that
49:57
keep them watching and reading and hooked on whatever it is it doesn't really solve anything and that's one of
50:03
the most wonderful thing things I feel about the groups is people get to hang out with real people um and I've said to
50:09
so many people forget about your social media and your Instagram you don't need to have the money and the muscles and
50:16
the babe and The Bling and whatever it is you're good enough to hang out with
50:21
now and so many people need to show off in order to be good enough one day to
50:28
hang out with to be to be hung out with to have friends so many men go
50:34
into you know schools provided and then there's uni and that's really cool and
50:39
it's fun for some and then there's the conveyor belt of the job and then maybe
50:45
moving for the job and then finding love and then maybe moving nearer her family
50:51
or his family or the job or whatever it is um and finally it's like wait a
50:58
minute what am I doing with this woman and these this is like um who was that
51:06
same as it ever was what was that track once in a lifetime yeah yeah Talking
51:12
Heads Talking Heads same as it ever was yeah um where they find themselves in a
51:19
life stranded alone where are my friends where are my friends from school where
51:24
are my friends from uni the only people I know I go drinking with or I work with or the only people I know are my kids
51:31
friends parents because it's convenient where is there anyone to meet
51:37
me who even knows me who cares about me who has similar values what are my
51:43
values you know it's so easy to let life get out of hand for a maale with the do
51:50
do doing and the achieving and the crossing things off the list so
51:55
it's it's it can be so lonely these days and I've been so careful with my closest
52:01
friends and I've never heard of this before but to but some of them when I lived in Australia I'd say to some of
52:07
them you know you better get your act together because if I have kids then
52:12
you're going to be the people that my kids are around and I want my kids you know we're all going to be products of
52:17
our environment uh and if you're part of my environment then you got to be good
52:22
um but it's true we are going to be part products of our environments and it's our responsibility for ourselves and our
52:28
kids and for you know it's like yeah I need a good environment here but how many men have let life get out of hand
52:35
in that way without thinking am I connected with myself am I connected with anyone who knows me who wants to
52:42
bring out the best in me who actually cares how I am who has similar cares and
52:47
concerns and values it's rare that these things are thought about and they are so
52:53
important and really weird thing that I've noticed is the men who have come
53:01
from social families are generally social and the men who've come from
53:06
unsocial families are generally not social and they don't know how to be social they find it quite difficult to
53:13
not only have friends but to have a conversation to meet women to take part in anything and I would say it's really
53:21
important especially for fathers to be how you want your kids to be don't tell
53:26
them be it live it um and if it's uncomfortable or difficult I mean these
53:32
days it's so much easier to meet people because you can find online groups I don't know about where you live it sounds like the wild
53:39
west yeah but to take responsibility for you know Mind Body
53:47
Spirit um and social life it's really
53:53
really important I interviewed a guy uh called Johan Harry who's written lots of bestselling books and he said the the
54:00
um the opposite of addiction is not sobriety the opposite of addiction is
54:06
connection and man I buy that totally true and that doesn't mean friends for
54:14
life I would say that before I went through a big change um I was King of
54:21
the victim Club um and taken care of everyone and not abandoning anyone it's the way I
54:28
was brought up to take care of the women and be responsible for their emotions Etc so that was the programming that I
54:35
had in my early years that I needed to undo as an addiction but include as part
54:42
of me so my thing was well I can't move on
54:48
unless we all move on because I'm not going to abandon you I'm not that kind of a guy I'm a good guy I didn't realize
54:54
that was a kind of love addiction and that was a kind of like victim Club mentality and I realized that the
55:00
biggest gift that I could give my friends was to move on not abandon them
55:05
not have a drama but to move on and for anyone else that wants to move on into more a more
55:12
conscious passionate life yeah I'm there but if I need to be in pain in order to
55:20
be part of this or a victim of something or have similar issues CH then I can't
55:27
do it anymore I need to live and I would rather you lived as
55:32
well yeah because I don't think that it's you know and even if it even if there isn't like some serious pain
55:37
involved in the relationship I think it's important for people to realize that I I I believe that over time we
55:45
have groups of friends and relationships and thing that are that are for a time
55:50
you have you have relationships that will last you know from you know we have friends that I've had since I was in
55:56
college or high school or whatever but I also have friends throughout my life that I'm like oh well this was you know
56:02
I had Mike in my life for this 18 months and we did these things and it was a great time but I haven't talked to Mike
56:08
in 12 years you know it's and and that's that's okay like he he he were moved on
56:13
with his life and I moved on with mine and we're in different places and you know all of that so I think it's
56:19
important to also realize that it's you know moving on can can look uh different in different ways yeah yeah and it can
56:27
be the most loving thing to do mhm I love you enough to set you free I love
56:33
me enough to set me free it doesn't mean that anyone has to do anything wrong or
56:39
bad or we have to have a drama but it's just like different Paces different
56:44
times and I've moved back to my hometown that I moved to from refugee camp with
56:50
my family 40 years later I've had 40 years in the wilderness us I never
56:55
imagined in a million years I'd moved back here and it's ridiculous to see old
57:02
friends from school from primary school from Secondary School from church whatever um and they are wonderful
57:10
people I'm not sure I would have wanted to be around all of them over the last 40 years yeah but you know but so many
57:18
people it's like picking up where we left off when we're together and it's
57:25
great and for me that's unconditional love rather than the old conditional
57:30
love of we're not allowed to abandon you should ask me about this we should check about this and that all the time you
57:36
know addictive love that's fair but yeah boundaries are such
57:44
intimate things and so important to be able to meet people rather than second
57:49
guess and and just have a a frenzy in the head yeah and again the groups have
57:56
been amazing because during lockdown the number of men who were in the groups who
58:02
said that they feel that they know the people that total strangers in the groups know them better than people that
58:08
they were brought up with that they have known forever because everyone's there
58:14
just telling the truth and the number of people who didn't go back to being
58:20
alcoholic because that was their only Social Circle and it's all they had it's like I can't do that anymore so many
58:27
people who need to let go of their uni friends because they were just alcoholic students and they didn't know how to be
58:33
together without it but it is like growing into who we are and these days
58:39
it's so easy to retrace people on social media or whatever when the time is
58:45
right and how so I I mean I it's all super interesting and I think the
58:51
group's aspect of this conversation I think is something we want want to kind of highlight too is that how do um and I
58:59
think this is a great place to kind of land the plane as they say but um what um how do people find out more about
59:05
these groups and get in touch with you and join maybe get involved in these groups um and and find that so the
59:13
groups are on every day you basically go to men's groups.
59:18
co.uk um and people come from all over the world there are groups every day plus we've got things like young men
59:25
speak um Elder men speak dads speak neurodiverse men speak Muslim men speak
59:31
Jewish men speak Christian men speak and so it goes on and it's not so much they're not religious groups they're the
59:38
type of culture that people have come from so it's like this is how I was brought up how can I be me considering
59:45
where I've come from So speaking a similar language and um the groups
59:51
they're cheapest chips they're like1 to20 a month and the first first months free for unlimited groups every day um
59:59
and in March we are launching an online
1:00:04
video training kind of course thing um I think it's like 300 quids
1:00:11
300 um and loads and loads and loads of
1:00:17
videos with a my best facilitators and I going through different modules talking
1:00:23
about so many different asp aspects of communication and how to hold groups and what happens behind the scenes and all
1:00:29
of that there are lots of recorded groups so we are training more and more people to hold groups and once people
1:00:36
have trained then they get to debrief with us after the daily groups and hold
1:00:43
um groups supported by us so it's literally a very very affordable
1:00:49
training program whether people are going to use this professionally or in their own Liv lives so the the online
1:00:56
training is the man whisperer. co.uk the media used to call me the man Whisperer I think it's a bit I I love that brand
1:01:03
actually you like it I just I I'm a I'm a big fan of Caesar Milan The Dog Whisperer so I'll take that I like the
1:01:11
man whisper I think that's great I think that's great branding as a marketer I highly approve good then I'll keep it I
1:01:18
wasn't sure and you know the whole lonely thing it's like I can't believe it there's a major national newspaper
1:01:25
um after International men's day that did a double page spread and the editors
1:01:31
really liked the way that I spoke about men and where we come from and I kind of
1:01:38
feel like we were seen and heard rather than the second guessing of men are stupid because of this that and the
1:01:44
other or men are toxic you know all of that it it just kind of like wipe that away and it's like wow we've got a
1:01:52
different perspective here and after that that blew me away they've offered me a column so people can write in with
1:01:59
their issues and there's an honest perspective that includes a male
1:02:05
perspect it includes testosterone it it it includes where we've come from it includes the
1:02:11
Unspeakable um and the first one they want is on on loneliness because of the issues that we've talked about over
1:02:17
Christmas in New Year and I don't know about um the weather over there but we have I think they called it Black Monday
1:02:24
which is apparently the most depressing day of of the year after Christmas in New Year when everyone else goes when
1:02:31
everyone goes back to work but yeah such a big issue that's that's amazing I'm
1:02:37
looking forward to reading that article I'll put the links too in the show notes and uh you know maybe we'll have to have
1:02:43
you back to talk more about the Articles as you get several you know get get some of those going and uh yeah I I've really
1:02:49
enjoyed talking to you and uh I'll have to check out the the men's groups myself so so uh thank you so much for taking
1:02:56
the time my pleasure it's been really easy and fun to hang out with you
1:03:02
awesome awesome and thank God for the tech issues we wouldn't have gone though without that's right and we're not we're
1:03:07
we're each not to blame and we're still good enough to go on the rest of our day
1:03:13
right cool if you're looking to really maximize your life and become the man
1:03:18
you were made to be head over to maxed out man.com and get your journey started
1:03:28
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