Episode 28 - From the Actual Circus to the Circus of Divorce - Judith Weigle

In this conversation, Kevin Davis interviews Judith Weigle, an amicable divorce expert and mediator. They discuss various aspects of divorce, including personal experiences, the challenges of divorce mediation, the role of divorce attorneys, and changing perceptions of divorce. They also explore the impact of divorce on children, overcoming adversity, teaching responsibility, and the value of challenges and hardships. They conclude by discussing how men can navigate divorce and the importance of supporting men who have been crushed by circumstances. This conversation explores the emotional impact of divorce on men, the importance of fatherhood, the issue of parental alienation, legal challenges faced by men, balancing work and fatherhood, and resources available for men going through divorce.

Takeaways

• Divorce mediation offers a more amicable approach to divorce, fostering a less adversarial process.
• Choose divorce attorneys prioritizing clients' best interests and cost-effectiveness.
• Evolve the perception of divorce; it can be a positive step toward personal growth and happiness.
• Prioritize children's well-being post-divorce with love, support, and stability.
• Overcoming challenges fosters personal growth; embrace adversity as an opportunity for improvement.
• Teach children responsibility for resilience and preparation for adulthood.
• Support men in divorce, addressing unique challenges and societal stereotypes.
• Help men rebuild confidence post-divorce, especially in the face of financial difficulties.
• Ensure equal opportunities for men in fatherhood post-divorce.
• Address and prevent harmful parental alienation behaviors.
• Seek lawyers specializing in men's rights for legal challenges in divorce proceedings.
• Balance work and fatherhood, prioritizing quality time with children.
• Access resources like coaching and communication skills training for navigating divorce and co-parenting challenges.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Setting Up

02:30 Discussing Divorce and Personal Experiences

03:40 Transitioning to Divorce Mediation

08:58 The Challenges of Divorce Mediation

12:14 The Role of Divorce Attorneys

15:29 Changing Perceptions of Divorce

19:26 The Impact of Divorce on Children

22:16 Overcoming Adversity and Personal Growth

24:25 The Value of Challenges and Hardships

27:38 Teaching Responsibility and Independence

31:11 Reflecting on Leaving Home at a Young Age

35:13 Homeschooling and Divorce Mediation

38:40 Navigating Divorce as a Man

41:46 Challenging Stereotypes and Expressing Needs

42:36 Supporting Men Crushed by Circumstances

43:05 The Emotional Impact of Divorce

46:50 The Importance of Fatherhood

51:07 Parental Alienation

55:40 Legal Challenges for Men

01:02:56 Balancing Work and Fatherhood

01:05:31 Resources for Men Going Through Divorce

About Judith:

Judith M. Weigle is an experienced divorce mediator, divorce negotiator, and communication specialist, with a demonstrated history of success in alternative dispute resolution in family law. She has a huge capacity to listen, and an innate ability to perceive nuances in communication to aid in settlement success. Judith's philosophy: Be Honest, Speak From the Heart, and Take Responsibility for Your Actions.

http://www.divorceresourceinc.com/

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Transcript

0:00
Welcome to maxed out man helping you
0:06
become the man you were made to be hey guys it's Kevin Davis from the maxed
0:12
out man podcast it's episode number 28. I am here with Judith Weigel the Amaco
0:18
divorce expert she uh runs a podcast and she is a divorce mediator extraordinaire
0:25
and this should be a super interesting conversation uh I told her when we were kind of getting set up that this is you
0:31
know this would be interesting to see between someone that has been married for 28 years and I'm kind of like
0:37
anti-divorce to kind of get you know and a child of divorce I'm super interested
0:42
in having this conversation and kind of uh just bringing it to light and see what we can see we can do to educate the
0:48
audience so thank you so much Judy for coming uh
0:55
I guess that's true or divorce but when it has to be it has to be so
1:01
you've done very well very well for yourself man married as long as you have been yeah we've um you know ups and
1:08
downs for sure but it's been it's been a it's been a we actually are happier now every day than we were yesterday so
1:14
that's that that's that's not something most people can say but yeah so I I think we're doing something right or at
1:21
least she is by not killing me in my sleep I think maybe that's the that's the place
1:26
[Music] um I think some years ago yeah that yeah
1:32
for sure so what are you if you want to I just did a you know that's your very brief uh introduction but I'd love to
1:39
kind of know more about what you do your history how you got to where you are uh and kind of what you spend most of your
1:45
time doing now living in the past
1:54
this is what I've learned Okay so all jokes included I have come from I
2:03
hope my background is in live entertainment when I transitioned into divorce close
2:09
to 12 years ago I say well this is more like a dark comedy this is more of a
2:15
drama if I'm going to continue to keep myself in the entertainment space but here's how it worked at age five I
2:22
started my own production company in the garage of my house so I am probably one of the few
2:30
kindergarten dropouts you've ever met I do have a very good friend who was literally thrown out of kindergarten for
2:37
about Behavior so I found a kindred spirit but early on I knew I wanted to
2:44
entertain people and I knew I absolutely loved entertainment so from that you
2:49
know go through school my first big job was with the Clyde Beatty cold brother circus and this does actually tie into
2:56
divorce so I had trained myself to be well I was a classically trained
3:02
musician flutist went to college for music and realized uh playing field is
3:08
way too tough here I'm not as good as I was well how good you are in high school that is really different when you get to
3:16
College playing field is different it's probably it's probably similar to sports right it's it's like the sports thing
3:22
it's you know you're it depending on what level you are your your skill set and expertise varies that's right that's
3:28
right but I was prescient and for people that want to do what Their calling is
3:35
I'm very big on that I remember when I had told my dad that I wanted to change
3:40
from a music Major to something else and I wanted him to allow me to explore the
3:47
towns that I had which were speaking writing so journalism Communications
3:52
philosophy um and English literature he said okay
3:57
you know it's fine do what you want to do but do you have any idea at all what
4:04
you would like to do for a living and I said you know Dad I really don't and then I got silent and I think this is
4:10
where the heart and the mind kind of came together without me thinking about
4:16
this ahead of time so what came out was very prescient I said I don't know what
4:21
I want to do I know I want to work with as many cultures of people in the world
4:27
possible in and in as many places in the world possible too and I don't know what
4:34
that means and he said okay do what you have to do seven years after that so I graduated
4:40
from college knocking around jobs to support myself something I really wanted to do for life
4:46
and there it was this was in the days when excellent jobs were listed in the
4:52
classified section of the newspaper yep and I read dad that changed my life
4:58
Circus Circus see the country we need marketing directors that have background
5:04
in entertainment journalism and Communications wow what I had already explored and so I
5:13
said okay well this is definitely my gig the uh marketing director the chief
5:18
marketing director came through Pittsburgh that's where I'm from Pittsburgh Steelers yay I'm from uh I
5:25
was there one for the thumb in 81 I went through that whole series when they went from the dust to Perfection so I was
5:32
right there in Pittsburgh when that happened anyway I sat down with Tim Stinson and I said so you're gonna hire
5:39
me this is my job this is what I foretold seven years ago and I will be
5:44
one of the best marketing directors you've ever seen he said um okay I guess I have to hire you Zoe hi
5:51
I joined the circus in Niles Ohio they were in the middle of the tour and I met
5:57
my future husband that first day on the job he was in the band he was on the
6:02
Midway eating a hot dog so I walked up to him and I said I think I know you
6:08
let's talk and so the rest is kind of History when we got divorced many years later
6:15
um it was I guess it was just the groundwork for what I'm doing now I
6:23
was amicable I was hurt it didn't matter I knew it wasn't a great relationship
6:28
you always know you always know don't fight it because you're going to make
6:34
both of your both of you will be miserable and so I just went with it and
6:39
I remember that whole year I was just I just came out of a meeting earlier today with a new client for filing because I'm
6:45
also a paralegal who files and I just said you know I think it was like the pain of childbirth if women really have
6:52
that as their memory there won't be that many kids born you kind of have to get
6:58
rid of that memory in order to move forward I don't remember at all what happened that year but I remembered that
7:05
I was not about blaming I was not about um torturing I was not about being above
7:12
no come on this is something that didn't work out let's Rectify this let's move forward and we're still friends today
7:18
and so I think when I finally came to this family line gig 11 years ago it
7:27
came into my life I've never woke up one morning and said God I'd love to work in the field of divorce the people who work
7:34
in divorce deserve Metals I know I'm self-serving by saying that but we
7:41
deserve medals it is tough ass stuff it's just really difficult it's harder
7:48
than uh generating revenue for a company it really is because you have to really keep yourself centered and placed so
7:55
that all of their sadness doesn't take you over it's easy like therapists
8:01
you know how do they do their job you only go to a therapist when you need help so yet they're happy people most of
8:08
them you just have to get good and [ __ ] that out yet giving compassion at the same time
8:15
it's really a skill in the Arts but anyway in between the circus and this all of my entertainment I work for the
8:22
Chicago Lyric Opera Sarasota Opera children's Opera company and then I moved out to Los Angeles the hills of
8:29
Beverly I love Los Angeles I love Beverly Hills
8:34
and I started working with my brother we produced live entertainment for private events and even though Eddie Murphy when
8:42
he was on Saturday Night Live made fun of musicians who worked for weddings let
8:48
me tell you in Los Angeles I can put all of your children through college by doing weekend weddings and the people
8:55
who hire me that was that was the Adam Sandler weddings Wedding Singer movie right like that was that he was kind of
9:00
the joke but yeah the little grandmother was saying that
9:06
song it wasn't right now um I don't know maybe oh it was right round
9:13
I love that tip um that Eddie Murphy was the one that did the spoof on musicians that played
9:21
private parties and I'm like Eddie if you ever need to augment your income and I know where you live we've done events
9:28
you should be a musician for for a wedding I mean these people spend
9:34
as much money on a wedding as you spend on all of your children going to college yeah it's it's crazy it's crazy honestly
9:42
yeah
9:48
yeah trying to make Harmony lives seriously yeah I mean I can
9:54
imagine in the you know the The Stereotype of of divorce attorneys and I
10:00
know you're not a divorce attorney but you know the stereotype of of is there you know they're like the the lowest of
10:06
the low attorneys out there and all they're trying to do you know they're kind of having to do the fighting and
10:13
they're just trying to grab from you know each of them the attorneys are fighting like T-Rex's over every last
10:20
morsel that's left and all that so you and say that again over the velvet Elvis
10:28
painting so Kevin there's this when I teach this recipe for a heart-healthy divorce course
10:35
um and and I talk about settling the emotional divorce before you settle the legal divorce meaning get through the
10:41
grieving apologize forgive accept and then start the filing I tell a story
10:47
about Judges two different judges who won't let people fight in their courtroom they just won't let it happen
10:52
and there is this Judge Terry a crone out of Indiana and he's famous for saying when
11:00
I have self-representing litigants in my courtroom who are fighting it's always over the velvet Elvis painted but I call
11:09
it the toaster but the velvet Elvis made and he said everybody has one it's never about the velvet Elvis painting it's
11:16
always about the hurt that hasn't been handled before you start filing and he
11:22
said I make them leave my courtroom and they are only allowed to come back when they're no longer fighting yeah I think
11:29
that's interesting I think we need more people the two-year point about divorce attorneys this tough space well they are
11:34
one step above the personal injury ones but that's true yeah I'll give them that
11:40
for sure well the personal injury ones are the only ones that have Billboards
11:46
and advertise position in law that you're not supposed
11:51
to sell your services well I think that's poo I sell your services you're a business they also don't look at
11:57
themselves as business people I said what are you talking this is the exchange of service for
12:03
money that's all businesses you exchange product for money you exchange service for money you are a business person now
12:11
act like one yeah in the world of family law
12:17
I am lucky enough to be surrounded by fabulous attorneys who will not take
12:23
your money if you don't have a big enough case if you have a case that's that I can do they refer to me or other
12:30
people like me um Document Preparation people because why should they charge people in La 425
12:38
at the least an hour you know looking at a twenty to fifty thousand dollar divorce without going to court
12:45
um they just won't do it they just say no no you can handle this through somebody else less money and you'll be
12:52
fine and then there are the other attorneys that blow everything out of proportion and you pay for things you don't need
12:59
and I wanted to with you because of the the intention and the type of podcast
13:06
you have I wanted to make a statement to men it's a hopeful statement and I want
13:13
to tell men this is not 20 years ago anymore 30 years ago you will not lose
13:19
custody of your children you will be able to see your children you will not be taken for everything
13:27
when people say oh I was taken for that's not possible there's no state in the Union that lets one person walk with
13:34
everything and the other person get nothing it doesn't happen like that but I do want to give that hopeful message
13:41
to men it's a new day do you remember that film Kramer versus Kramer with
13:47
Dustin Hoffman that was a classic groundbreaking movie that was the very first time a man got
13:55
full custody of a child and the man was more nurturing than the woman hmm yeah
14:04
when so my parents divorced when I was six and I'm 50. so that was 40 almost 45
14:11
years ago and at that time this was rural Texas and at that time I mean you're you know
14:18
my mom was not a good mom she had all sorts of
14:23
you know chemical habits and all that and she's still got full custody like back then you the moms literally could
14:29
have been a crack [ __ ] which crack didn't exist at that point but could be you know a terrible mother and they
14:35
would still give you full custody so I waited till I was 12 what before the judge that was how that all
14:41
that all went so and so I actually and kind of picked my dad at 12 so I kind of
14:47
raised myself from seven years old on my own because of the full custody thing so
14:53
I would have actually been better off with my father but it just didn't it just didn't happen back then that's not that's not how things right it was
15:00
really different back then but that it isn't now but let me ask you something because you've raised a really good
15:05
point people who live under adverse circumstances as a child they can either
15:13
use it to be phenomenal successful people like you or it can destroy their
15:19
lives it really is how you use it so when that happened when you were left in the house
15:25
with your mom and you saw that she had adverse conditions to being a healthy
15:31
mother and running a healthy household how did you react how did you pull
15:37
yourself together you know in my case I've always just thought that it was like a a god-given
15:43
personality to make that possible I'm um I'm a multitasker now I have four
15:49
businesses 12 Brands serial entrepreneur I do tons and I've just always been that
15:55
way I kind of don't need a lot of sleep I'm just very high functioning in that
16:01
way and it's and I think part of it is is nature and part of it is nurture like I was literally taking money out of
16:08
person out of her purse from Child Support to buy my own food I would not
16:14
see her for days at a time I'm seven and eight years old so I was like a latchkey
16:19
kid with just the keys and you know there's that there wasn't anyone around a lot of times and and it's a bizarre
16:26
you know to my kids grew up in a very stable home and and I try to explain some of that
16:32
and it's just the con the concept is almost foreign to them yeah that that
16:38
that someone but it's funny because my sister's very well adjusted she's about eight years older than me my brother's
16:44
gone through many divorces has had some some other
16:50
issues difficult in his life but he's 13 years older so I he was out of the house
16:55
by the time any of this happened so it was it's interesting how so but he grew up in
17:01
probably an unhealthy marriage at that point um you know some some mental and
17:07
chemical issues going on there with with both my parents and so um at that time and and so but it's a
17:13
it's a bizarre it's that's a hard question to answer you gotta you gotta caught me on that
17:18
one a little bit but it's a hard question answering but I think it's just you know I I just had this innate
17:24
ability of survival um and just kind of do what needed to be
17:29
done and I still you know 50 at 50 years old I still do the same thing I'm just
17:34
one of those that's just kind of how I run that's that's now is your mom still living
17:41
she is we do not have a relationship um primarily because she's she I
17:47
actually I she's kind of a toxic she's very toxic um and she was dangerous to our family
17:54
um I I and you know I'm not here to share about my mom she'll never hear this anyway but okay but no I but but
18:00
it's funny because she used to send me Father's Day cards and birthday cards and and put pictures of me when I was a
18:06
little kid and write over them uh this is when you used to love me
18:12
so I was at some point I was like all right this is probably not healthy for
18:17
you to send you know cards to my children saying that your dad's terrible and won't talk to me and all this stuff
18:22
so we we I made one last ditch effort to say hey I'd love to have a relationship
18:28
with you but these are kind of what we these are the boundaries and all that stuff and it just it just didn't happen
18:33
so so but uh no but it's always fascinating to me how you can have two
18:40
or three siblings all raised in the same household or under the same conditions
18:45
and they turn out very very differently and so I kind of look at it as your
18:53
upbringing only does so much for you it's what's inside that takes over and
19:01
the learning lessons that we're supposed to have each in our lives we get those
19:08
learning lessons and then we just have to do something with them and hopefully
19:14
you know we get through them and we prosper and we become better and if we
19:20
don't well that just means we have to figure out what we didn't learn so that's really great and I'm always
19:27
impressed like um Sean Combs you know if we're going to use somebody really you know hugely well known
19:35
um he grew up in a very tough situation too but you know he rose above it and so
19:41
do a lot of people rise above it and then you have the Trust on babies you
19:46
know then you have people that have more than enough for their entire lives and can't put it together so
19:53
um nobody really wants to grow up in a dysfunctional household it's better if you don't I thought I grew up in a great
20:01
household and still I have two siblings and we're very close
20:06
um both parents are gone but we each turned out slightly differently
20:12
um and we all grew and we grew up with the same parents so it's what we make of
20:17
our lives right and just to speak more to your the theme of your podcast it's what we make of Our Lives that's
20:25
important yeah absolutely and that you know I always think of Life someone I'm a big
20:30
physical fitness guy I lift weights several days several days a week and have just always done that and the way I
20:36
think of life with the trust fund Kids versus someone that goes through adversity the way muscle growth works is
20:42
you literally break the muscle down and your body senses that it's going to do that again so then it repairs itself and
20:48
adds additional muscle fibers which that's cause muscle growth you get stronger so that you can so essentially
20:56
preemptively growing to anticipate that same heavier load and so that's why you
21:01
have that's why you have to consolidate for more weights and all that and I think life's the same way I feel like that these and I I was actually worried
21:09
about that with my own kids you know we're not we're not ultra wealthy we're not trust fund wealthy but they grew up
21:15
in a you know upper middle class white family in Montana
21:21
um which is pretty homogeneous and and you know pretty conservative and straight laced and I wanted to give them
21:27
you know experiences because I think trust fund kids don't often have difficulties no one tells them no
21:34
you know in a lot of cases and and they don't learn how to deal with challenges
21:40
you know they have their own challenges almost like they create them but with my kids like I sent I sent my 14 year old
21:46
to Costa Rica for six months to go learn Spanish and she's been to Nepal and my you know other daughter has been to
21:52
Brazil for months at a time and you know when they were they've traveled more than I have before they were the age of
21:59
18. you know and so but to purposely give them that exposure
22:06
first of all Kev and I secretly wanted to be a trust fund baby and a supermodel I thought that my life would be perfect
22:14
I would be grateful for all the money I had and when you're a supermodel
22:19
everybody likes you and wants to be around you so I just thought that would be great that hasn't happened and I don't think
22:25
that's what uh to the day I die but I think when you don't have challenges
22:33
so the trust fund babies do they have well they don't have challenges making money they have money but when you don't
22:39
have these challenges it doesn't test you and when things test you you have to dig
22:46
deep you have to be creative you have to be centered you have to know where your
22:52
resilience lies and we all need to be that way
22:57
so I I you know looking back that's my way of saying it's okay if I wasn't a
23:04
trust fund child I um I dug deep I overcame challenges and
23:11
and I'm okay with where I am today I am yeah and a lot of people don't get there
23:17
right like that's that's something you know there and there are there are very wealthy people that
23:23
um are teaching their kids you know that you it's like the old Bill Cosby line
23:28
it's like you're not from the from The Cosby Show he said uh Theo at one point
23:34
said hey we're rich and he goes no son you're not rich I'm rich
23:40
there's you know there's a difference between but I I think like Shaq Shaquille O'Neal I think he has a
23:46
certain way that he handles money with his kids I think Will Smith's the same way I think there's several that kind of
23:52
have taken steps to at least help them to to stand on their own two feet a
23:58
little bit what about Warren Buffett isn't it well known am I right when I read about
24:05
kids and Bill Gates just carved out a little slice of wealth for his kids I
24:11
think because both of them understand unless you really work for it it doesn't
24:16
mean anything and then those who have that altruistic personality
24:22
um and that aren't caught up in the ego of the money they actually want to put their money to good use
24:29
um and they do they do they don't want to die with all of that money so I I you know these are some of my heroes these
24:37
are people I look up to and good for them yeah for sure because you gotta you gotta let your children at least you
24:43
know we did this thing with our kids when we when they were getting cars we we said hey we'll match you dollar for
24:50
dollar they started saving when like they had a little piggy bank that had basically you know savings giving and
24:57
then um spending so there's this little this little three three things baked but they started saving for their car when
25:04
they're like nine or ten years old and we matched dollar for dollar what they
25:09
what they had saved so they could double the the kind of car that they bought I didn't buy either of them a car they
25:16
each bought their own first cars we you know and they were I mean they're you know we probably put three or four grand
25:21
towards it they put three or four grand towards it which is a pretty decent used car
25:26
um but they you know they had friends that had just been given a car whether it was used and crappy or not they just
25:33
they wrecked them all the time and they just they didn't take care of them and I kids paid for their own insurance and
25:38
like that you know there are certain things that you can certain steps that you can take a little bit at a time to
25:44
teach kids some of that responsibility I love that I
25:52
refer tuition room and board I mean college is nothing it didn't cost anything close to what it costs now
25:59
uh when I decided to change Majors I
26:04
said I'm going to help out so I became a resident assistant and I
26:09
I can't believe they let me do it I was so wild in college but I was in charge of a floor and so he didn't have to do
26:17
that and I I was happy to do that that made me feel really good and then when
26:23
that gig was kind of over after a few years to finish college I moved home and I had a job
26:29
I I didn't want it not work I I wanted to earn money I didn't want anybody to give me any money at that time so yeah
26:36
earning your own money really means a lot yeah and trying to teach the kids you know and this obviously this we're
26:42
talking mostly dads here but trying to teach your kids that responsibility and and it's it's so funny both my kids were
26:49
homeschooled they both left home at 17. um I have one that's paramedic one that
26:55
is actually doing um data acquisition and research so
27:00
um but they're both gainfully employed and it's funny because the my youngest who's 23 now when she was she was in between
27:08
houses in between in college and she didn't live at home um and I but she was local and I said
27:15
well you can always come back and stay with us for you know a month or whatever and she said if I did that I would feel
27:21
like such a loser it's that was like I was like that's great I mean like
27:28
because she had such pride in doing and honestly like if she really had needed
27:33
to but she had other she had already made other arrangements but it was one of those things where she had such an
27:38
independent Spirit about that like I need to make I want to take care of my own stuff and if but I know if I really
27:45
need it that dad's there for me and and we've you know we've helped her with short-term loans and and all that she
27:52
always pays us back yeah we do loans we don't do just like total gifts it's like I'm not just here to give you money
27:58
you're an adult but if you need a little cash to get you by you know for a month or whatever we could do that yeah well
28:04
you know one of the things that I actually regret is when I was 16 years
28:10
old I went to my parents and I said I think it's time to leave home I think I'm done and on my
28:18
own but I missed the part that I had to earn a living to completely support I said so we break
28:25
down what you spend on my food what you spent on my clothes what you spend on me
28:30
do you think you could pay that to me and then I would go get an apartment I
28:36
really missed this and I'd always worked as a kid I can't believe I missed the step where no if you're going to leave
28:41
home you actually have to support yourself you can't yeah and so very good
28:47
friend of mine calls me Rebel light and I said you know what I think you're
28:53
right I think I am rebelite I think I have these grandiose ideas and gestures
29:00
and I start expressing myself and then I pull back and I apologize did
29:07
I express myself too much should I apologize to anybody what I said in the meeting last night and that's when my
29:13
friend Stacy said Judy your Rebel light come on I said no I think I like being run alive that's kind of a determ but if
29:21
I were to do it over I'm really respectful of people who leave home at
29:26
age 16 or even 15 they they're ready
29:31
they know themselves um maybe they're philosophically not in
29:37
line with their parents and if they stayed there longer that would change them
29:43
and I just I loved my parents dearly they were great parents but I think for
29:48
my own health and growth of I'm to be honest about you know the pros and cons of how I made decisions I think I would
29:57
have been better if I had left home at age 16. but that didn't happen so here
30:02
here I am ours were 17 and they were they were you know both had their
30:07
equivalency you know when you're homeschooled you you don't graduate necessarily but you do basically it's
30:13
the it's they call it the hiset which is basically the GED in our terms so but
30:18
both are more ready to go and they you know my youngest went to parameda or went to EMT school became an EMT they
30:24
both tried college for a little bit and it just for neither of them you know being homeschooled for so long was not
30:30
uh that really just just wasn't a great fit and then now my youngest is actually going to she wants to be a medical
30:37
doctor so she's back in school as but she's a full-time paramedic too so so yeah they they both left home kind of
30:43
early and you know I treated their I always call it the entrepreneurial approach to Parenting
30:50
and to schooling especially when we did their homeschooling it's just it's a it's a dynamic approach not real
30:57
textbook you know to use a to use a pun there almost
31:03
um but yeah they they turned out pretty good we have our we have our moments but I think that they they left left home at
31:08
the right at the right time so if we're talking about go ahead I'm just going to
31:13
ask you a quick question why did you decide to homeschool so here so we well we did this thing we
31:21
took the kids out of school when they were fifth and sixth grade um and we did a 3000 we did a we did a
31:28
hundred mile sorry 100 days 34 states 12 000 miles in an RV around the United
31:35
States so we pulled them out of school for three months three and a half months and we basically traveled the United States
31:42
as as full-time RV family but at that time what we had them do is because we
31:47
went to so many historical sites or historically interesting sites all up
31:53
and down the east coast and the Eastern Seaboard in Boston and Colonial Williamsburg and all those places we
32:00
actually had them shoot videos and do paperwork at each location so we kind of homeschooled them and then we reported
32:07
that back to their homes to their teachers and this was 16 17 years ago I guess so it's
32:14
been it's been quite a long time so this is kind of early early in the you know the blogging or vlogging days uh we had
32:21
a little little blog and and kind of did that so that led us to like hey we could
32:27
do this and we traveled quite a bit we wanted that freedom I've been self-employed for 25 years my wife is a
32:34
uh is a stay-at-home mom and so we had this Freedom so we figured why don't we just add to that freedom let them learn
32:39
on their own timeline and there you have it we kind of took them out and and but they went back to school after that but
32:46
they about sixth and seventh grade is when they were just ready to kind of kind of do their own thing at home you
32:52
didn't bring it up as well we we kind of brought it up together but yeah they they were definitely it's not we didn't
32:59
just pull them from school it was a it was a decision that they were that they made effectively you know at their age
33:06
we don't you know kids when you're 12 and 13 years old you're you know long-term decision making is not exactly
33:13
well developed but they they knew at the time that that was something that they wanted to at least try and and and see
33:19
how it went okay thank you just to end that the one of the reasons why I asked
33:25
was because when I'm doing divorce mediation uh and I run into a situation
33:31
that's homeschooled it's just an interesting conversation to have and why
33:36
people do it and uh one person will typically be in charge of it and the
33:41
other person will be working but um yeah we we did it kind of so I had um there's
33:47
a it was CDs at that point but I had a I had a home network that I set up and I'm
33:53
kind of a computer guy my first business was web development but um we we basically use CDs and online
34:00
now it's everything's online but at this point it was CDs and they submitted homework and and it was really
34:06
self-teaching and we're fortunate in Montana fortunate unfortunate depending on the kid
34:12
but the The Homeschool laws are very generous to parents I know in California they're pretty ridiculous they're it's
34:19
very difficult to homeschool your kids in some states like California because there's so much bureaucracy and
34:25
you know they basically try to force you back into school which I'm not you know I'm a bit of a Libertarian when it comes
34:31
to that stuff but um you know so that's that's they drove that process and uh it was something we
34:37
all kind of did together on the circus the kids were homeschooled so on the circus there were families and
34:46
the families had children and the children actually eventually went into the act of their parents but during the
34:51
day before the performance has started uh there was typically in any one year a
34:59
woman who had been a teacher she didn't really grow up in a circus family she
35:04
married into one had children and she became the teacher for all the kids on
35:09
the circus and that was kind of cool to say school go on just like um actors on
35:16
on location you know if they're kid actors they'll have a teacher on set so that you don't get behind
35:22
yeah it's kind of a tutoring in a tutoring aspect or even like old school
35:28
you know single School House rural towns back in the day when they used to everybody you know everybody was kind of
35:33
in the same in the same classroom but I'm I'm interested in more of what you
35:39
do also in terms of like if obviously our our audience is mostly men
35:44
um you know there are women that listen to this of course but How would how do you guide men that are
35:52
either already going through the divorce um kind of have decided that that's the
35:57
only outcome you know there that's the best outcome for them we do marriage
36:02
mentoring and we've done kind of premarital counseling and that kind of stuff as a as kind of lay people
36:08
um and so with our marriage mentoring we actually talk a lot about that you know let's we want to do everything we can
36:15
individually and together to make this work right and and we've been fortunate
36:20
that we typically deal with with situations that are not far gone right like this is it's something that we're
36:27
not even close to that divorce precipice at this point um we we don't often deal with a lot of
36:34
like seriously in crisis people but like if you're if you're in that situation as
36:39
a man especially how do they navigate that because I know that Even in our society men typically are
36:46
kind of the enemy a little bit you know in this you know I think in in terms of
36:53
not enemy necessarily but I think that we get less Credit in in some when you
36:58
watch the media let me just say that like it we're kind of presented as the bumbling idiots or it's all our fault or
37:06
you know something of that kind of stuff first of all I hate that image I literally hate that image that bot that
37:13
has always bothered me for my whole life I don't like people portrayed like that
37:19
um it's wrong well you know there's not a one-size-fits-all situation but so I'm
37:25
going to break it down into a couple categories there's the situation where the man
37:32
has caused the divorce so here's a story married 30 years 28 of those years man
37:39
was in a relationship with another woman who was also married for all that time
37:45
and wife finds out devastated has lived her entire 30-year
37:52
marriage thinking she was just married it was just the two of them right and it ended up not being the two of them
37:59
um those men typically don't say I'm sorry right
38:05
those men typically have nowhere to go because they have literally lived a
38:12
double life and it happens more than people think so there's no guidance for those men
38:19
there's just you can't you can't come with judgment you don't live their lives you're the
38:24
I'm just there to do a service for them it's the men
38:29
that crumbled under external circumstances
38:36
that led to the divorce that my heart goes out to men are looked at still as being the
38:43
stronger ones I mean at least on the surface but you know women are really tough
38:49
yeah I live I live my life in a you know female trades person my wife's an
38:55
off-road racer she does welding we've built made tons of vehicles with all women teams so I I definitely anybody
39:04
that would tell me that guys are stronger overall I just you know they're totally wrong she's also a boxer so I'll
39:10
just have have her punch them you know to kind of prove that she's not the weaker one but but anyway I bet she's a
39:17
size six she's she's beautiful she's actually 5
39:24
10 and um you know she's she's physically fit very physically fit so yeah so she could definitely kick my ass
39:30
let me just say that so um
39:39
you were saying that that they're typically portrayed as the as the stronger of the two
39:46
possibly and supposedly can handle anything well they can't handle anything I mean that's a ridiculous stereotype
39:54
right so we have to get rid of that people are people and I think men are having a difficult time getting ready
40:00
getting rid of that stereotype too and able to be uh expressive in terms of
40:09
um talking about the needs that they have the emotional needs the
40:15
intellectual needs the social needs but in terms of the men that got crushed
40:22
by circumstances either something happened in their lives and they weren't able to meet that challenge
40:28
oh my God this is where my heart really goes out to them because they don't know where to go and
40:36
you can tell me this is what's in my head you tell me when a man is not
40:41
producing financially because this is society's expectation of men when men are not producing
40:48
financially and it's not their fault should have it
40:55
um don't crush them what women don't crush them you know this is I'm sorry this
41:02
happened if you have children it's a drag because you need to raise your children enough money but no
41:09
um when I see them sitting in front of me I am I try and be very very careful
41:15
with how I talk because when you're meeting with them it's all about money I mean divorce is all about money
41:21
separating people financially it's looking at community property or equitable distribution of assets and
41:28
debts and you can just they don't even meet my eyes I mean they're looking down
41:34
the entire time because this is so embarrassing this is bone chilling
41:40
horrible to them and they need their confidence boosted
41:46
you know they need to be told hey this happens to everybody so you just have to
41:52
Rise Above This you have to figure out you know where your new center is and
41:57
you definitely have to get therapy you need
42:03
somebody in your life to get you back to Center what were you going to say
42:09
I was just going to say yeah because men you know I think Society puts that on us but I also think in my mind just with me
42:16
personally there there is an innate desire and responsibility that comes
42:22
with being me as a man to be the provider and the protector and you know all of that you
42:29
know it's funny because I even though my wife has a much better shot than I am uh
42:34
with a pistol or gun people uh I you know the the I still have that
42:40
and she's strong in her own right and a boxer and all those I still have that sense of protection for her and so part
42:47
of that part of that support and provision is financial right so there's
42:53
a lot tied up into men's self-esteem with being able to provide that yes um
43:00
yes yes very difficult I wonder how you'd react
43:05
if something happened we have a lot of irons in the fire you don't just have one iron answer right
43:11
but what if you became financially devastated how do you think that would affect you
43:17
we've been there actually what's funny and um you know with us we've taken a
43:23
lot of my wife and I who I usually refer to as either she has two names she's
43:28
either my smoke show hot wife or my bride those are typically the way that I
43:34
I refer to her but we we've been very aligned on all of the major you know if you take all that big list of the things
43:40
that cause you know Strife in a marriage we we've been very uh well aligned and
43:45
we're always super honest with each other about things and and we've had times you know we're making negative
43:51
fifty thousand dollars you know being a business owner we've had years that sucked and and it's just like all right
43:57
well we we talk together we work through it we say okay here's what we need to sacrifice these are the steps we need to
44:03
make um you know does she know need to go back to work she's been a stay-at-home mom she took early retirement from
44:09
public relations when I got my first Health Club back in the late 90s
44:14
um but yeah we actually were able to weather that situation because it she
44:20
wasn't the type of person to say well that's your problem what are you gonna do to fix it had she been that it would have been a
44:27
very difficult situation wonderful no that that that's brilliant
44:32
um the fact that you could come together and talk about it and there was no blame it was just this is what we have to deal
44:39
with now what our best choices going forward and that you did it as a team
44:44
and I think that's great so there's the man that's crushed
44:50
financially and then there's the man that's crushed
44:55
because he really didn't want the divorce marriage is untenable you know
45:00
for a variety of reasons and there's a child and there's a small child and the
45:06
fear immediately Creeps in I'm going to lose my child and this is a nurturing man so one of the things that happened
45:12
in the court system uh [Music] was that people started realizing that
45:20
men can be nurturing too and maybe more nurturing than women and so why are we
45:26
giving the child to Mom all the time why aren't we in the best interest of the
45:32
child which is a phrase used in court systems now the best interest of the child is to have exposure to both
45:39
parents because each parent will teach the child different things and it's very
45:44
important to have a well-rounded child and I remember I was in the middle some
45:51
years ago in a divorce mediation and I don't really know what happened in the
45:56
marriage uh and it wasn't Financial something else happened and this woman
46:03
was just Relentless at uh by saying no
46:09
the child belongs with me the child belongs with me I think two years old maybe three
46:14
but very on and he broke down and cried and he said I can't imagine a day not
46:23
seeing my child you know I feed him I diaper him I bathe
46:30
him you see that I'm an involved dad how can you not want him to have me in
46:37
his life and it was all about retribution right so whatever happened she was very angry and so the child
46:43
became the bartering tool in all of this and one of the things women say is well
46:49
I've been reading all these psychology books and the attachment Theory so there's this thing called the attachment
46:55
Theory and the theory goes the child should be attached to the woman not the man you know BS
47:01
the child needs both people and quite often the child is more attached to the dad than to the mom because the dad is
47:09
very nurturing very understanding very patient we'll listen we'll allow the
47:14
child to express him or herself and so the dad said I'll never ever forget this
47:21
this mediation the dad said look if you're worried about cooking I'll take cooking classes I'll take cooking
47:27
classes with you so that you know I can prepare food properly for our child whatever the rules are whenever you want
47:35
him to go to bed I will do that for you I just cannot not see my child I want
47:43
overnights with my child and so I said let me have the room
47:48
and so he left the room and I and I said to her look I do a lot of these mediations this is
47:55
the first time I've seen anybody willing to change to the level of your
48:01
having you be comfortable so that he can participate in raising his child who
48:07
doesn't want to be married to somebody or divorce to somebody like this knowing
48:13
full well your child is going to be very safe when your child is not in your home well she got mad at me for siding at him
48:21
I said no I'm not siding I don't know you two you're strangers to me I'm
48:26
sharing with you you have the best situation known to mankind
48:31
you have a parent a father who is willing to change his life for
48:38
his child you can form your life so anyway so we
48:43
worked it out and yes he got to be with his child but you know there are moments
48:49
you'll never forget when people bear their souls and so you know my heart
48:54
goes out to everybody um you know women inherit situations
49:01
that they don't deserve um and have to deal with them but so do
49:07
men and I just want men to know that the world recognizes now I think the world
49:14
does in large measure that you have feelings that you're important to your
49:21
children and that you will sacrifice and do what
49:27
you have to do to raise your children and when there's a divorce and there's a
49:33
choice when you have to hire attorneys they're attorneys specialize in men's rights
49:40
there just are that understand the manipulation that can go on and men may
49:46
lose their rights with their children oh there's this thing called parental alienation that I'll get to in a second which is horrifying
49:53
um poisoning a child's mind uh against a parent and typically against dad
50:01
but um if you are a man and you feel that you might lose time
50:08
with your children you know you only get them every other weekend which is so crushing to me that that's that's how it
50:15
was with my dad every other weekend yep what do you accomplish every other weekend
50:24
pounds what happened in school that day what happened at the baseball game I mean you have to be there when your
50:31
child goes through their experiences of life so that you can do what a parent does is supposed to do and that is guide
50:38
them through it you know and Center them so that they can grow stronger from these experiences
50:44
no no I was actually and I'll let you continue but I was um there's a Facebook page I
50:52
follow called The Art of Manliness and they actually posted an article on Father's Day which Father's day was just
50:59
not too long ago about a week ago um and it and I can't remember the statistics but it basically gave all the
51:05
statistics on what happened once our society moved to fatherless situations
51:13
and and in this case it was fun you know no longer having a father in the home but I think in context it's not having a
51:20
father in the life of the child and it was you know the the number of incarcerations went through the roof the
51:26
number of unplanned pregnancies went through the roof the number of actual abuse situations as an adult for young
51:33
women actually increase like all of these factors you know that dads are
51:39
super important like I the to ever anybody to say and you know there are
51:44
single moms working their asses off out there there's no question and if there's a man out there that happens to be a
51:51
father but not a dad then that's on him and it's unfortunate that's unfortunate
51:56
for the child but if there's men that actually want to be a part of their child's lives you cannot give them a
52:02
better gift than to allow that you know long term absolutely and for any women who may be
52:08
listening to this it doesn't attract from you you know having a strong man having a
52:13
dad there wanting to participate it takes nothing away from you
52:18
men and women are different what they can add to a child's life and a child wants both people a child's not
52:24
evaluating who's more important to me mom or dad right they want both mom and
52:30
dad or they want Dad and Dad or they want mom and Mom I mean whatever the situation is they want both parents and
52:39
for one parent to try and control the
52:45
um the connection and and the ability for their child to see their other parent woe to that parent when the child
52:52
gets older the shit's gonna hit the fan it real am I allowed to curse or should
52:58
I sure no it's you could do whatever you need to rub a light
53:04
polite apologize to the audience thank you yeah
53:10
you know you don't need to apologize by the way on a side note almost every dinner party we go to I have to ask my
53:15
wife afterwards was I out I was a lot right like I was too much was I a lot yeah because I I'm just I tend to be I
53:23
have a very loud voice I'm I'm very I tend to be very witty and I tend to take over the conversation so I'm gonna just
53:30
start calling myself Rebel light also maybe that's maybe that's what I need to do
53:35
from this show there you go you were talking about
53:41
parental alienation um and I'm interested in that concept I've kept you for a long time but I want
53:46
to I want to get into that for sure okay parental alienation is 110
53:53
from seeing the things and they do it in a number of different ways typically they bad mouth the other parent
54:00
or they will be very emotional when that parent's name is brought up they don't
54:05
even want that parent's name brought up um I thought it started with the Devil
54:11
divorce I interviewed somebody on my podcast Ron burkless a couple weeks ago
54:16
who said No it started in the home when they had children while married that he
54:23
loved his children dearly and now he's working in the state of California on Parental alienation rights but he said
54:31
he noticed that he would be criticized whatever he did with the kids he would
54:37
be criticized in front of the kids and then she would make it so that he
54:42
couldn't go out and play ball with them or take them on walks and do what he normally was doing which he loved
54:49
participating in his kids lives and the parental alienation started then and
54:55
then he couldn't take it after four years of marriage he had to get divorced and then it became Defcon and then he
55:02
started realizing she had some issues you know she had some psychological issues
55:08
and I don't know I think this was in England though this happened I don't think it was in the United States and I
55:15
don't know that their court system was set up to deal with it at that time
55:21
but I interviewed a gal from Greece who wrote a book on Parental alienation
55:26
because she was a child alienated from her father and what happened to her was
55:33
dad had another relationship and Mom of course of course didn't like it but
55:39
could never get over it ever ever ever ever ever and mom was extremely emotional all the
55:46
time and the child thought that she had to rescue her mom the kids think like
55:52
that but they have to rescue their parents if their parents are sad and unhappy
55:58
and in order to rescue mom that meant she had to make the decision the child
56:03
not to see Dad which mom of course loved but Dad
56:09
didn't know how to handle it and figured okay so as my daughter gets older we'll
56:16
talk we'll figure this out I'll get her back I think that's the hope maybe of
56:22
parents who are alienated will get them back it's an expensive court process
56:28
this is a destructive court process but what do you do this is the worst
56:33
situation in the world when one parent will either fight during the divorce to
56:40
keep the child away from the other parent and there's nothing wrong with the other parent there's no drugs there's no alcohol they make a good
56:46
living there's no valid reason for this parent to not see their child
56:52
um it's just it's destructive especially if the parent loves their child how do you function like this and you spend
56:59
years trying to change that and you're either lucky enough to get a decent
57:05
judge who can thank now here's the problem with judges I mean it's the law they don't there's no emotion attached
57:12
to law it's law but there's a complete emotion attached to Parenting
57:19
there's no behavioral issues that would be adverse to the Health and
57:25
Welfare of the child why can't you just make sure the child is with both people why can't you make
57:33
it a court order it really depends on the judge now you get personal issues coming in that shade a judge's
57:41
ruling which is horrifying you just have to hire the right attorneys so what Ron
57:47
was saying in the podcast that was only a couple weeks ago so tune in go look for it on the amicable divorce expert
57:53
podcast and I put show notes there and he said find a lawyer who literally
57:58
understands parental alienation take them through it ask them questions ask
58:05
them about other cases that they handled and what was the outcome because they can say they understand it
58:12
doesn't mean they do just means they want the case yeah there's a lot of money in
58:17
representing somebody in a parental alienation situation and I would think the difficulty is that
58:23
you can't I mean for lack of a better term you can't legislate behavior in the
58:29
home like you're not going to be able to how do you control the words or actions
58:34
of the parent that's that's the one that's alienating I mean it's like you you so in California there is a law
58:42
actually in California there is a lot interesting and we write it into the settlement agreements that neither
58:50
parent may make negative or disparaging remarks about the other parent it's a family code you can call the other
58:56
parent on that especially in the world of videotaping and audio taping now you can definitely get that so yeah they had
59:04
to make it a law because depending on how you deal with the
59:09
divorce you may use your child as a weapon you may weaponize your child
59:15
against the other spouse and um and they think some people think nothing
59:21
of it they don't even see it that way yeah well because it's it's you know
59:26
there's a fair amount of selfishness you know especially in that In the Heat of that big of that situation there's you
59:33
know there everybody seems it's easy to be self-serving and you know what you what you want and I mean
59:39
the weaponization of children is just ridiculous and I've I mean I've had it I've you know I've seen it firsthand and
59:46
it's nasty it's um it can it can be really hard respond when you were 12 and
59:53
said I would like to go live with my dad now well it's a statute so it actually like
59:59
it would I I don't know how close it was to my fir to my 12th birthday but it was very close like it was like I bite at
1:00:05
the time and I said okay Dad you this is your weekend um you know come get me a day early or
1:00:11
whatever and then we went before the judge and and it was it's it's statutory at that point so literally the child
1:00:18
gets to make that decision so it was just you know he asked me who do you want to live with I want to live with my
1:00:24
dad you know gavel pound it I assume I have no actual memory of this happening
1:00:30
um but that's that's pretty much the way I understand it okay
1:00:35
um can I speak to men a second in terms of
1:00:40
you don't have a situation where it's alienation you have a situation where
1:00:45
Mom simply wants the child to be taken care of now by both of them now how how
1:00:51
does this look what does this mean and that has a very high powered job that
1:00:57
has always made a ton of money but in order to make a ton of money you're not
1:01:02
home a lot well you have to be out if you're going to make a lot of money now
1:01:08
dad has a decision in the divorce situation do they ask for 50 50
1:01:14
co-parenting time meaning you get as much time as you know you split the time in half
1:01:21
um and in so doing are you developing latchkey kids because you're not
1:01:27
changing what you're doing for a living so that you can be with your children
1:01:33
you're giving them to your parents the grandparents or the nanny or the nanny
1:01:41
um you know what does this look like if you want to continue living the life that you have been living and maybe you
1:01:47
can't help it this is who you are you are a worker you're a type A personality
1:01:53
but you can also provide for your children better because you're this type
1:01:58
A personality that makes a lot of money then don't do that don't ask for half
1:02:03
the amount of time you're not doing your child a service look at your schedule and your time
1:02:12
realistically if you can pair back at all anywhere do it so that when you're
1:02:18
with your children you put that cell phone away and you're with your children
1:02:24
if you're with them every other weekend and and dinner on a Wednesday night you're all in for your
1:02:32
children yeah treat it treat it like you do with your I mean if you're a business person
1:02:37
treat it like you're doing business you know you would block if you're in if you're they're the most important client
1:02:45
you have right like if you're you so treat it that way you turn everything off just like you would with your most
1:02:50
important client you're not going to take a another business call during dinner with one of your most important
1:02:55
clients you shouldn't do that with your kids either it takes that dedication I'm going to use that Kevin
1:03:03
feel free this this is all free advice right you get what you pay for
1:03:12
there you go I think that's an even even trade so I mean we're you know to kind
1:03:17
of wrap this up what for men that are in this situation now like just starting it
1:03:22
or if they're kind of in the middle of this what and I know every situation is different but there are there certain
1:03:29
resources that you would send them to or their kind of thought process you know this is this is kind of how you think
1:03:35
through things or how you take these steps
1:03:40
women are in the middle of getting divorced and they have children is that the example that we're we're using sure
1:03:47
yeah we can we can use that as a that'd be a that's a great place okay you know first of all analyze who you are as a
1:03:54
dad and how you want to be as a dad going forward because you're not a dad in the house with Mom there
1:04:01
you know doing things while you're at work so analyze the dad you want to be
1:04:07
going forward for your children if you feel that you didn't spend enough time with them change your life so that you
1:04:15
can spend more time if there's an apology you need to make to your soon-to-be former wife apologize and
1:04:23
make it heartfelt because that will change everything
1:04:30
a real apology will change it maybe she'll say all right so fine you're apologizing now
1:04:38
yeah let it be the way it is you just do your part to stand up and in your truth
1:04:45
and just say I'm so sorry things happen this way I'm so sorry this was my
1:04:51
contribution but we have these children and I want to dedicate myself to being
1:04:56
the best dad possible and I'm going to work hard at it I mean who can fault somebody for that yeah yeah that's
1:05:03
pretty that's pretty hard to to take that down for sure okay no resources well
1:05:09
um and go ahead and go ahead and lay out your uh you know go and lay out your resources your for your personal stuff
1:05:14
too that'd be a good time to do that well okay so
1:05:21
a divorce and recipe for a heart-healthy divorce has four quick ingredients it's a it's an aggregation of things I've
1:05:28
learned over the past 12 years not only from my clients but from experts I've interviewed on the podcast First Step
1:05:35
settle the emotional divorce before you file for the legal divorce you need to get through all of that so you can make
1:05:42
sound legal decisions number two learn communication skills for conflict
1:05:48
you're going to do them the words we choose and the tone of voice we use
1:05:55
means everything when we're in Conflict you can get back control in your life if
1:06:01
you know how to communicate and there's a gentleman that I refer to all the time
1:06:06
his name is Bill Eddie Eddy he's written 30 some books on communicating in high
1:06:12
conflict situations and it works Kevin it works every time number three also
1:06:20
those skills can come in handy in preventing divorce probably that's cool
1:06:27
and they come in handy in any conflict yeah 100 yeah negotiations and all that
1:06:32
too right yeah um yeah there's a certain way to deal with people that neutralizes a situation
1:06:40
and you know how we've been in situations and we say dang I didn't handle that right if I only could have
1:06:48
said acts instead of saying why the I'm going to teach you the tools to say why
1:06:53
you no longer have to regret saying X number three compartmentalized time so
1:06:59
that you're not living the divorce every second of the day so you can function and think and keep your job together and
1:07:06
have a balanced life and then lastly a self-care program with
1:07:11
laughter so exercise is phenomenal but if you can exercise with laughter
1:07:18
that's great so my suggestion is goat or puppy yoga now of course in La we're
1:07:23
very Advanced with these Concepts but this goat yoga started on a goat
1:07:29
Farm in Vermont two women were teaching yoga the goats
1:07:34
got out one day of their pen and they're walking all over and around the women everybody's hysterical so I went to a
1:07:42
goat yoga class I have photographs I think I saw that on your LinkedIn actually it looked hilarious thank you
1:07:47
so much
1:07:55
so that that's the one thing I would like to leave um and where do they go to find that
1:08:01
information divorce resourceinc.com the first
1:08:06
resourceinc.com and your podcast is the amicable divorce expert podcast yes yes and we have great
1:08:14
guests to do more episodes
1:08:19
I want a lot of it to be very personal one-on-one I want people to feel like I'm speaking just to them calm them down
1:08:27
and get them to focus but I I we have great guests on the show awesome all
1:08:33
right so I have to check that out myself always educational love your
1:08:42
puppy thanks yeah we've got this this whole Pro the whole project has been fun I mean I'm a 50 year old
1:08:48
happily married good kids financially stable so I'm like I see all these
1:08:54
things in my life and my goal is to is to use what I've learned just like you're using what you've learned to help
1:08:59
other men and in this case I always say you know to be who you were made to be like wherever you're starting
1:09:06
there's always a way to go up there's always a way to improve and and that's
1:09:12
what I love about this podcast is because like I would never you and I would probably never have this conversation
1:09:17
you know it's just you know it's just we don't it's it's just a rare situation and and to be able to talk to men's
1:09:24
experts and experts in health and fitness and testosterone and and divorce
1:09:30
and marriage and all of these things it's been it's been phenomenal it's this is this is so much fun for me
1:09:41
people and seeing how they think and thereby improving myself at the same time so this has been 100 yeah thank you
1:09:50
so much and and what's funny is that my my wife said you are becoming you because I have to learn to listen I I
1:09:56
what's ironic about me doing a podcast is I talk a lot and so I this is this has forced me to
1:10:03
to keep my mouth shut and be a better listener so it's helping my marriage also so
1:10:08
I love your wife she gives you great advice and I think you handled yourself beautifully thank you very much yeah
1:10:16
she's pretty awesome well thank you so much Judy I hope you have a great day and uh and we'll uh keep in touch for
1:10:21
sure and hope and people need to go check out your podcast go check out what was the website again divorce resourced inc.com
1:10:31
thank you very much all right well have a great day if you're looking to really maximize
1:10:38
your life and become the man you were made to be head over to maxed outman.com
1:10:43
and get your journey started today.