Episode 23 - A Former Marine Teaches Evolving Masculinity - Christopher Veal

This conversation explores the importance of self-reflection, personal growth, and being aware of the impact we have on others. It emphasizes the need to question information, be skeptical of media bias, and not let offense consume us. The influence of social media and objectification is discussed, along with the importance of teaching vulnerability and emotional intelligence to young boys and girls. The conversation concludes with the encouragement to have deeper conversations and foster vulnerability in relationships. In this conversation, Kevin Davis and Christopher Veal discuss various topics related to relationships and vulnerability. They explore the challenges of navigating sponsorship obligations, making financial decisions, and finding the right balance. They emphasize the importance of being vulnerable in relationships and the power of saying 'I love you.' They also discuss the significance of building strong connections and the impact it has on personal growth. The conversation concludes with information on how to connect with Christopher Veal and a positive outlook for the future.

Takeaways

• Navigating sponsorship obligations requires open communication and consideration for both parties involved.
• When making financial decisions, it is important to consider the impact on others and prioritize open and honest communication.
• Being vulnerable in relationships can lead to stronger connections and personal growth.
• Expressing love and appreciation for others through words can have a positive impact on relationships.
• Building strong connections with others can create a supportive and fulfilling network.
• To connect with Christopher Veal, visit wholemanjourney.com or listen to the Vulnerable Man Podcast.

Chapters

00:00 Being Curious and Aware of Impact

34:08 The Importance of Self-Reflection and Personal Growth

37:06 Not Everyone Will Like You, and That's Okay

38:35 Managing Offense and Letting Go

41:09 The Influence of Social Media and Media Bias

44:07 Questioning Information and Being Skeptical

45:15 The Impact of Labels and Stereotypes

46:36 Choosing Your Emotional Energy Wisely

48:18 Teaching Vulnerability and Emotional Intelligence

53:38 Understanding Teenage Boys and Girls

57:00 The Influence of Objectification and Subliminal Messaging

01:00:31 Encouraging Deeper Conversations and Vulnerability

01:03:15 Navigating Sponsorship Obligations

01:04:14 Making a Financial Decision

01:05:20 The Right Decision

01:06:06 Being Vulnerable in Relationships

01:07:00 The Power of Saying 'I Love You'

01:08:30 Building Strong Connections

01:09:12 Finding Christopher Veal

01:09:51 Wrap-up and Future Outlook

About Christopher:

Christopher is a Vulnerability Vanguard, Global Influencer, International Speaker, Author of The Whole Man: Evolving Masculinity, Podcast Host - The Vulnerable Man. As a former Marine officer, combat veteran and black man, Christopher leverages all this and his 25 years of experience in executive development to be a global influencer and speaker on evolving masculinity as the author of The Whole Man. He also lead retreats and individual VIP days for focused transformational work in leadership and living.
https://www.wholemanjourney.com/

To learn more about Maxed Out Man and to maximize your potential, visit www.maxedoutman.com or connect with us on Social Media:

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Transcript

0:00
Welcome to maxed out man helping you
0:06
become the man you were made to be hey guys it's Kevin Davis from max out
0:12
man podcast this is episode number 23 we are here with Christopher Vale or Isabelle
0:18
parmesan Christopher veal uh and he is a vulnerability Vanguard Global influencer
0:24
International speaker author of the whole man evolving masculinity and podcast host from the vulnerable man
0:30
honestly I feel like that uh you know you're you're overqualified to be here but I really appreciate and I'm honored
0:37
that you would take the time to uh to come on board and have a great talk about masculinity and probably
0:42
connection and and some of the things that you you teach around the world so welcome thank you absolutely and glad to
0:48
be here Kevin thank you for having me on the show and I'm excited for the conversation that we get into today yeah
0:54
so I mean honestly this is pretty open format so why don't you give me a little
1:00
bit about your background and kind of what you do and you know you can drive you could drive wherever we wanna
1:05
wherever we want to end up I know you've got a lot to share with these guys and you know I think it'll be awesome
1:11
absolutely well as you said you mentioned most of the highlights in the the introduction you read about me so my
1:17
primary work I do Executive coaching and I do speaking engagements in organizations and events I do a lot of
1:23
talk around inclusive leadership around helping leaders bring more vulnerability so they can have greater impact and
1:29
influence with the people that they lead as you mentioned the book the whole man evolving masculinity I published that
1:35
last year and that was a book that I say took me six months and 50 years to write
1:40
and I'm also the father of a teenage daughter which is probably one of my most important jobs she will be entering
1:45
high school this fall so that is a new adventure for us that we are navigating our way through as well yeah you're
1:51
right you're right in the the thick of it I remember when you were out of the house already right yeah they're they're
1:56
25 in a couple of weeks and I remember when they were 14 their heads started spinning around doing that Linda Blair
2:03
thing and I mean they're they're awesome kids but that was a that was an interesting time yeah well knock on wood
2:09
uh the teenage years have been good so far I hope they continue but you know doing my best God bless you brother
2:16
we'll speak over that yeah absolutely I think the only thing I'd mention is so
2:22
I've been doing leadership development in some form or shape for the last 25 years I spent nine years as an officer
2:27
in the Marine Corps in the Infantry including a combat tour in Iraq spent six and a half years in construction doing project management and then about
2:33
a decade in organizations doing learning and development and organizational development work and one of the things
2:39
that I've realized throughout it all is there are certain ways that we as men are expected to show up in different
2:44
situations and that's what got me on my own path to this curiosity that I have and and brought me to where I am today
2:52
I mean you you I mean dude if you you don't get much more traditionally masculine than construction and Marine
3:00
Corps and combat veteran and you know it's like that's yeah so for you to then so what was the
3:07
journey in stepping away not stepping away but but integrating what would be
3:12
more modern um enlightened we can call it masculinity sure into that you know it
3:19
was there were a couple things that happened in short order one of them was my
3:24
daughter was born I became a father and so that really started me questioning how I was showing up so when I was in
3:31
the Marine Corps and when I was in construction I was successful in those roles but I also felt like I could only bring a portion of myself because there
3:37
was a way you you were expected to show up as you talked about and when my daughter was born I was
3:42
working in the construction job and it was interesting some of the comments because I live in California and when my
3:49
daughter was when my wife my now ex-wife was pregnant I had put in to take paternity leave and I got a lot of
3:55
pushback from some of the guys especially the older guys at my work you know I heard comments like why are you taking maternity leave they didn't even
4:01
know what everybody was or I'd hear comments like oh raising kids is women's work and that really just reinforced my
4:08
resolve to be present for my daughter because my parents divorced when I was four years old and so I knew what it was
4:14
like not to have my father as part of my life growing up and I knew that when my child was born I was not gonna allow
4:20
that to happen and so I really wanted to be present and those comments really just stealed my Reserve to say no I I
4:26
will be so that happened and it really had me look at how did I want to show up and what's the example I wanted to set
4:32
as a man but then I also did a leadership program a year-long leadership program in 2015 and coming out of it you have what's
4:40
called a leader Quest and for me what it was is I wanted to explore the conversation around men and
4:45
vulnerability because I had seen brene Brown's talk the power vulnerability and her second one listening to shame
4:50
shortly after and I realized there were parts of me that I didn't let out in certain spaces
4:57
or I wouldn't you know allow to show up in some ways and so it got me really curious about and exploring and I
5:02
started having conversations with men one-on-one about what got in the way for them being vulnerable especially with
5:08
other men because a lot of men are willing to be vulnerable with their Partners particularly with their female partners
5:14
but don't usually with the guys like you know you're kind of that tough love kind of thing but you won't really share how
5:19
you're feeling or if you're struggling and as I started talking with men I realized a lot of the guys that I was
5:25
talking to wanted to have more opportunity to be vulnerable but they didn't feel safe doing it and so that
5:31
really got me looking at how does society hold the way we view men and that's really what started this whole
5:36
snowball for me yeah it's a it's a crazy I mean it's crazy being a man I talked to a a woman
5:42
yesterday that was like I don't you know I don't envy it because it's it's a different it's a dichotomy in terms of
5:48
how they how we normally think of it like oh I would hate to be a woman in today's society and I think more people
5:53
I've heard that phrase I I don't know how you guys do it like it's a hard place it's a hard place to be
6:01
um that's I love that you took that step toward for your daughter I actually really struggled I was a I was kind of a
6:07
workaholic when my first one was born and I was traveling all over the United States I kind of missed this first six months of my daughter's life as a result
6:13
of it and then completely you know at the bequest and urging of my
6:20
mom of my wife which bequest means hey do you want to remain married and have a family
6:25
that was her request you know yeah um I actually turned my entire life around I went to my boss said look I can't travel
6:32
anymore I need to do this and lo and behold I got a a huge raise didn't have to travel anymore didn't
6:39
come in early didn't stay late and because he and so you know in my mind
6:44
it's kind of God ordained and God helping that situation and and but it was also a matter of the you know the my
6:51
boss um really respecting and and wanting me to to take that step and I think dads
6:57
forget how important we are especially to daughters Sons Sons for sure but
7:03
you're you're defining what a male relation what a guy is supposed to look like right right well as my
7:09
father-in-law said to me when my daughter was born you're the first man she'll ever love and that really hit home when he said that because that
7:15
carries a lot of responsibility what I really want to acknowledge is your boss because most men don't feel safe saying
7:22
they want to take more time to be a parent because a lot of organizations still have that stereotypical mindset of
7:29
if you're not here and putting work first you really don't care and so as a result that's one of the things that
7:35
gets in the way of men taking time to be caregivers and has them less willing to which creates more friction and tension
7:41
in the home as well yeah I mean I think that it I had some I had some obviously
7:48
motivation and absolutely and a little bit of Leverage because at that point it
7:53
was kind of this was back in the.com days so it was a startup and um and I was able to find somebody to I was a
7:59
corporate trainer so I did two two to three cities a week I was responsible for everything a lot of Road time yes
8:04
yeah but at that point I could I we had developed the company enough to be able to take that and and to say I'm gonna
8:11
hand this off and then I actually got a raise and I ended up with about 300 Global employees that worked under me I
8:17
worked from home more often and all that and so all that to say you there are ways to solve that problem
8:23
and there are ways to approach that problem and realize that just because you think it's not possible and
8:29
obviously in some jobs if you're a particular kind of worker right you're gonna have a really hard time having
8:34
that discussion right uh but I look forward my waiter is a restaurant working remotely like I prefer there
8:40
bringing my food out but you're right well they got robots at McDonald's now so you know do you know what I better be
8:46
careful what I say maybe five years from now I will change my mind about it yeah the Little Rosie the robot from uh from
8:52
The Jetsons doing that right yeah well and that's the thing about the pandemic is it's really shown us that a lot of
8:58
these organizations who feel like we have to have a brick and mortar place and have to have employees at their
9:05
desks every day to be productive we've seen that that doesn't work or not that doesn't work but it doesn't have to be
9:10
the way that we work and there's some organizations that have made the change now and they're not going back they're keeping their people in Thailand remote
9:15
which gives people more flexibility too so I I think the thing I'm really celebrating about that is
9:21
it's giving us different ways of approaching things and you get to look at what's needed for the business and
9:26
what's also going to serve our people because that's a thing a lot of businesses have learned too is if they're being inflexible people will
9:32
leave and they'll leave for less money if it gives them greater flexibility so no good businesses are willing to flex
9:38
if they need to well and I think that probably it's it's this productivity balance right like that big joke was the
9:44
girl that was uh posted on Tick Tock hurt Tick Tock her typical day at at
9:49
Twitter and literally the girl worked like 25 minutes of an eight-hour day because she was getting wine and she was
9:56
going to the Cat Coffee Bar and like you have to you have to look it up it's out it's out there on YouTube it was
10:02
absolutely she got fired obviously um and he fired that's one of the reasons when Elon took over Twitter he
10:09
fired so many people because it was that was the culture of doing nothing okay but it was like you know just a cushy
10:16
job and and all that but I think the balance now is to try to figure out I've worked from home for over 25 years right
10:23
I have my own office here I don't go to an office there are days when I don't I live in rural Montana so there are weeks
10:28
where I don't leave the house at all you might not be able to yeah there are definitely times when you don't want to
10:34
go out in 40 below zero but like I think the challenge into your to your kind of quest and what you're doing is how do we
10:40
get connected and stay connected absolutely um I do that a lot through this through not only the podcast but
10:47
because I have Global worldwide friendships and don't have a lot of local friends these are my friendships
10:52
and this is how I interact with my friends absolutely I think that we are hardwired for connection that's just how
10:58
we are I mean you think back to look at how our ancestors grew up and and they would Gather in groups as a way of surviving and even though our society
11:06
has changed and we're not in that hunter-gatherer type of um environment we still have that that craving for
11:12
connection and it shows up differently but I'll tell you technology is a blessing and a curse like I love it because I can I can interact with you
11:20
I'm in Southern California and we can have this conversation it's also we've got to have a balance
11:26
because I also like my daughter faces in the phone a lot right yeah all
11:31
our friends are and I don't fault them because that's what they're growing up with but how do you know where the balance is so that you can you can have
11:37
connection that's that's real and not just that through a screen and um impersonal sometimes which I think
11:44
happens and cultivated that's the that that's the big thing is you you can't have vulnerability in a cultivated
11:51
environment absolutely absolutely yeah so it's funny that you talk about this connection for men because it's
11:57
something that um I grew up in with a totally wild childhood and I think I I listen to your
12:03
Ted Talk this morning talking about how you the way I describe it as being a chameleon like I was in nine different
12:10
schools for the first eight years of my wow of elementary through junior high but I got to be really good and I still
12:18
have that skill of finding a connection with everybody I meet in some way because like you said
12:25
you got the band geeks and the and the jocks and all of those things which I like you said in your Ted talk I'm not
12:31
even sure those those uh exist still in high school but they may not be right or they've got different terms now that
12:37
they use right yeah but it's that it's that um finding that connection is so
12:42
important absolutely and I think one of the things that's key to it is is being
12:47
able to be in conversation and be curious with people you know so often as my mother would say she's tell people
12:53
like stop broadcasting start tuning in yeah and that's really something I've taken to heart because a a number of
12:59
people that I run into on a daily basis are so busy about sharing what they want to talk about that even when they're
13:06
listening they're just waiting for their turn to talk but when you find people that are really willing to be in conversation that just changes the game
13:12
for everything yeah I have a recommendation to all men is start a podcast like this that will be uh
13:21
conversations it is and honestly like I I'm a I'm a guy that just talks a lot I have a
13:28
I have a low deep loud voice like I just that's just so it tends to overpower
13:35
people and I've I have kind of that go-getter mentality and all you know
13:40
Vibe or whatever you want to call it so I have to this doing this has really helped me and even my wife is like she's
13:48
like man you you are definitely practicing at becoming a better listener wow you know and so and that's part of
13:54
this because like I want to talk and then I want to have you talk for 10 minutes like that's because I want to
14:00
learn I can relate I have a podcast I do the same thing right yeah and so I think it makes us better listeners and
14:07
um the problem with now is that we we both can't listen at the same time somebody has to do somebody else that's
14:13
into the talking well I'll tell you one of the things that's really helped me is something that I learned when I was
14:18
trained to be a coach because I'm I'm I like to say I'm a recovering world-class Problem Solver
14:24
part of that was just reinforced by my time in the military but if somebody comes to me with something my mind is
14:29
automatically racing connecting the dots and going oh I see what's a possible solution and what really helped me is to
14:35
let go of whatever that is but more importantly not think about something to say until they just finished talking so
14:42
that it really has me be conscious to what they're saying and following to that the end of that last sentence and then go ah so what am I curious about
14:48
from what they just said and that's been helpful I don't always succeed but more often than not it helps me out yeah I I
14:54
I'm that way too I never did military um but I I almost pursued it it just
15:00
didn't work out for me but I have a I have a very military kind of I would have loved to do special ops or
15:05
something like that um yeah but I I always want to solve the problem when I I used to early in my
15:11
career I I I managed multi-million dollar health clubs okay uh I can tell
15:17
you if an exit sign has one bulb out I don't know if you know this but all exit signs have two bulbs in them or at least
15:24
they used to this is back in the incandescent light but it is but you can tell if one's out so that's my brain I
15:31
could see that from across the mall so that's that's a metaphor for how I see life in general and one of my biggest
15:37
challenges I don't know if you experienced this but people when you think that way people are an obstacle to
15:43
me sometimes to my to and I I really struggle and I work really hard at not having that be the case but I think that
15:50
is so many times it's like you're on my way or you're being too slow or you know
15:55
what whatever it is we we also have to remember for me is I also have to
16:00
remember that not everybody processes things at the same speed that I do which isn't a necessarily A detriment because
16:06
there's times where because I do that so quickly I miss things where the people that slow down or will get more
16:13
information so it's this balance and figuring out what's needed in this moment and how do I need to show up and
16:19
also leave space for others too because that's one of the things I've really loved is everyone operates at different ways and
16:25
we're all needed and we all have unique approaches so I know my way isn't always the best way even though sometimes in my
16:30
head I'm like well of course this is the best hand and I've learned that yes that's not always the case yeah and even
16:36
if it is the quote unquote best answer for a given situation that doesn't mean that's the best doesn't mean it's the
16:42
only or or the right or the right answer I'm embarrassed to say when my girls were younger one of my youngest
16:49
she tells very very long stories like to get to get to anything and I'm
16:54
embarrassed to say that I was like you know come on I need you to you know let's at some point get to the point you
17:00
know that I had to practice without being overly impatient but I'm not a patient man so that I'm embarrassed to
17:06
say that I've worked on that over the years but even now it's like okay well she's called we're gonna take some time
17:12
and and really you know tune everything else out yeah well it's and again so the communication is such a key thing
17:18
because I'm more of a bullet point you know high level uh big picture kind of thinker and and operator
17:25
and some people like a lot more detail and for me if somebody sends me an email with like a spreadsheet with lots of
17:31
information my eyes roll back in my head and I hear the Charlie Brown want voice and I check out and so what I have to
17:37
realize is when I interact with people that like more information I've got to give them more information which is
17:42
counter to my Natural Instincts and I have to take more of that breath as you said to be willing to hear them so that
17:48
they feel met as well because ultimately I have control over how much space I leave for them and and again it's not
17:55
necessarily about me it's how do we effectively communicate and as far as being infective in that
18:00
way how are you you know obviously listening and slowing down and absorbing more of their information how are you
18:06
adjusting your approach to giving out information to me kind of what they need in order to have
18:12
you communicate effectively with them yeah one of the one of the best tips that I learned so
18:18
my ex-wife and I we struggled from time to time and sometimes she would come to me and be looking for advice and
18:24
sometimes just needing to to vent and I wasn't sure how to to respond and I would get lost there were times where I
18:31
would you know trip on my own feet and start giving advice when that wasn't what she wanted and I and I finally
18:36
somebody said to me why don't you just check and ask and I was like oh that's an obvious answer and so I would say
18:41
when she would come I would say you know let me just check do you need Problem Solver Christopher or do you need listener Christopher and she might go
18:48
all right I need Problem Solver I need to listen or she might say I don't know and I said cool but that helps me and so that way
18:54
um it would it would allow me to really show up in a way that served what they needed and so the lesson that I took away from it is if I'm not sure I'm
19:01
going to err on the side of listening until they ask for help because what I know is sometimes when I share things
19:07
with friends I don't instantly want them to solve it for me I'm a pretty capable guy I can figure it out but sometimes I
19:12
just need to share what's going on so that it allows me the space to think about it and so I default to
19:18
more listening than problem solving unless they specifically say hey Christopher put on your problem solving hat and then I'm like not a problem I
19:24
can do that yeah it's literally I just turn it around no it was already there yeah it's um I
19:31
talk a lot about there's a a guy named Dr Gary Chapman that has you and even everybody's probably heard of the five
19:37
love languages absolutely and so it's similar in that it's it's you can use
19:42
that throughout your life and even if it's not those specific five things if you are able to try to identify those
19:49
you know how best to have people feel listened to and cared for and loved and all those those are you know especially
19:56
in a marriage because mine are mine and and my wives are you know drastically different which is which is great we've
20:02
been married for 28 years so evidently we're we're still figuring it out but my problem solving with her I guess has
20:09
been something throughout our marriage to where like I have not allowed her to
20:14
solve her own problems and so about in 2016 she started our
20:20
kids were kind of had pretty much left the house at that point she reinvented herself from a stay-at-home mom into
20:25
rally racer welder car builder wow all of these things but she she had to learn
20:32
how to do all those things because she had no background in what in whatsoever so I had to be really deliberate about
20:39
right you know we're not in an offer and yeah because we built a g we basically
20:44
rebuilt her Jeep for the first off-road rally completely like it's only got a few parts left that we started with and
20:50
so I had to be able to step away and say look if this is something you can do on your own let me show you how to do it
20:56
and this is how it goes but and so and that's really helped her yeah and and
21:01
how has that changed your relationship you being able to step back a little and let her find her way oh it's made a huge
21:08
difference the the you know she's she's always had you know self-confidence issues but this is over the last you
21:14
know seven seven years or so it's really you know she's grown tremendously in
21:20
that and and we've been able to then continue that we're building a 3 400 square foot shop with 16 foot walls okay
21:26
well there you go yeah and it's just the two of us yeah well even as you talk about her too in that way like I see the
21:32
pride in how she stepped into it right so it's it's a compliment to the both of
21:37
you that you were able to find your way and and allow that to happen too yeah and it's to your point it's I you know a
21:44
lot of times I have to say is this something you want me you know because I tend to tend to assume she needs my help
21:49
on certain things right which is not which is sometimes the case not always you know if it's a pickle jar you know I
21:55
know my I know my role there I gotta open that thing right but you know there are times so now she we just had this
22:01
discussion about two weeks ago I you know you need can you ask me if I need help before you give give that help but
22:09
a perfect example of how we do things now is so we have the walls are like 75 feet long on this bill
22:16
and I had built several walls already and she'd kind of we'd done it together and I was like well I think you need to
22:22
build this 65-foot wall by yourself and so I showed her the basic framing handed
22:28
her a nail gun and said here don't shoot yourself in the leg TV and she built she built the whole I mean these are huge
22:34
walls she built the whole 65-foot section in smaller sections but she built that you know built it by herself
22:40
which is like it's pretty awesome there's something pretty amazing when we hold that someone's capable of doing
22:47
something you know it it's amazing how they actually live up to our expectations
22:52
right yeah killing prophecy if you tell somebody they're not good at doing something eventually they're going to believe they're not even if they have
22:58
the ability and so I love the idea of like I trust you can do it you know she
23:03
may have thought I'm not sure but knowing that you believe she could probably gave some some impetus for her
23:09
to be able to do it so yeah awesome and she made some mistakes and she was really pissed at herself that she did it
23:14
I'm like what I'm like yeah I expect you to build this perfectly because you've done it so much I'm like here you know
23:20
here's how you fix I'm like and so that I would say here's what I see here's the things that
23:25
I think that that she already knew the mistakes that she had made and I said well go fix them I'm not going to fix that for you here's a you know here's
23:30
here's some strategies to fix it but I think to your point about raising daughters it's something that her dad spent her
23:38
whole life telling her that you're a girl you're overly emotional every problem you have is because of estrogen
23:44
and you know the fact that literally it's just you're a girl so she had this impression of not being
23:49
able to do pretty much anything especially as a woman and I've talked
23:55
about this multiple times on the podcast but we we she got involved in these all
24:00
female vehicle builds for SEMA and sema's the biggest trade show in the
24:05
world yeah but it's 60 to 80 trades women they're high-end welders Automotive Builders technicians and all
24:12
this stuff so she got to be around all these women to show her that you know it's it I can still I can actually do
24:19
this right absolutely right well and that comes to if they don't see the examples they don't know that it's a
24:25
possibility right and that's part of so a big thing that I talk about is this
24:30
idea of healthy versus unhealthy masculinity and and the reason I chose evolving masculinity as part of the title my book is it's not about throwing
24:37
away what it means to be a man because there are some good elements but there's also some things that have created problems in our world so how do we
24:43
expand it and show more examples of more range so it I don't have to be an alpha male to be a man that can be part of it
24:50
but it's a big thing I stand for is instead of either or thinking we shift to both and so and and actually I was
24:57
listening to Ed and you have a conversation as well right before we got on and he was talking about similar
25:03
things I love that I've talked to him in the past but it's men can be the breadwinner and a provider or a
25:09
caregiver not either or you know I can be independent and strong and still sometimes need to ask for help and so
25:16
that's how we need to shift things and similar for my daughter you know I have always said I'm going to give her
25:21
opportunities do lots of things she wants we get on my motorcycle all the time when she's ready I'm gonna teach
25:27
her how to ride a motorcycle and do all those other things she wants to I don't want her to think about there's boy things and girl things
25:32
because at this point we're in a world where we're Beyond binary right yeah and I'm still trying to unprogram that
25:38
because I turned 52 last month and I've got more than four Decades of programming saying genders are you know
25:44
boys and girls well that's not our world anymore so how do I unlearn that because that's what she's already growing up
25:50
yeah I mean what do you think about the challenge of being able because I think now we're almost moving men towards that
25:56
other end of that continuity yeah that Continuum you know if you look at kind of young young boys younger boys like
26:04
they're almost taught that any of those masculinity based traits are a Bad Thing
26:09
versus we want to maintain some of those where they're appropriate but then also expand that like you've like you're
26:16
doing yeah you know I think what it is is it's it's not let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater right
26:21
because again there are some good things but part of the problem is we've we've Associated some characteristics with
26:27
being a man which actually isn't true like for example Independence and and being strong you know I was
26:34
raised by a single mother that's what I saw every day in her so I don't necessarily see that as something that's
26:39
a male trait but that's how they often get portrayed in the media and I think that's a big part of how we shape and
26:46
influence how we're looking at things so we also need to look at what are the what are the examples that that people
26:51
are seeing as they're growing up you know um I also think about the examples we had growing up so a lot of
26:57
the men that I talk to when they talk about their fathers vulnerability wasn't a word that ever would have come up you
27:03
know I've talked to so many guys that say you know I don't know that I've ever seen my dad cry and that's not a fault of those men
27:10
because they were operating off the examples that they had what I'm an advocate for is how do we expand the
27:16
possibility so it's not to take away everything that's here but how do we keep the parts you know in nature when
27:21
things evolve they keep what's needed and then they adapt new traits or
27:27
characteristics to survive in this new environment that's part of what we need to do here keep what works and the
27:32
things that aren't let them go and find new ways to integrate so that we can be a better resource and Survivor in the
27:38
future yeah I learned some answered your question or not no I think I think you did I think it's I think the challenges
27:43
that we face now like the if you you know TV and media and all that the men are always dumb and Dopey and you know
27:51
there's there's no like what they've done is they've decided at some point that a a man has to have you know if if
27:58
they're a guy if they're they're always dumb right they don't know how to make
28:04
good decisions or they're too Alpha which is you know those those traits exist but I think the challenge now is
28:10
that it's how we how we kind of expand that so that women become more
28:16
of the you know become better women and men become better men by incorporating
28:21
things of both of what what really is kind of our natural makeup because the the genders are
28:29
different in terms of like you know because of hormones and upbringing and all these things with like with my girls
28:36
for example so I've made it a point I probably opened my wife's car door 98 of
28:42
the time and I taught my girls the same thing but my youngest is a 23 year old
28:49
paramedic in Atlanta who when she gets on the scene she's in charge of about 25 alpha males First Responders because
28:56
she's in charge of the scene absolutely my other daughter is very strong you know and so like but they understand
29:01
that a man can show respect it's you know it to have a woman tell me
29:08
that I'm that I'm denigrating her by opening a door for her just I want to just shut the door in her face because
29:14
it's like what that's not the case like I'm just trying to be respectful I open it for other guys too right I think part
29:22
of what you're pointing to is yeah we're we're trying to figure out how to be in this
29:27
current world because you're right that's how I was brought up you open the door for someone and I remember once when I was in college I think I was on a
29:34
date a first date with the woman and I went to open door for her and she goes I don't need you to open the door for me and I was like okay not a problem we can
29:41
end this date here and I and it wasn't that I was offended by it but I was like I just know that's how I am it's not it
29:47
for me it wasn't to signal that she couldn't do it but it was a way of being respectful and I and I just knew
29:52
immediately like if that's going to set you off then we're probably not going to get along well yeah so how do we find a
29:58
way to kind of balance this and and I think what it points to is we also have to be
30:04
open to what is it that's going to respect and serve that other person so again I know that's how I was raised you
30:10
know uh and and you be respectful to people and some people now some of those
30:16
things may not land the same way and so what I also have to tune into is okay I know what my intention was they may not
30:21
know it and how do I meet them in what they need that still honors me as well because it's not about throwing
30:27
ourselves out in service of others but how do we find that common ground and and ultimately the bottom end of the day
30:33
it's how do we all just respect the humanity in each other that's what I come back to yeah because in that in
30:38
that example obviously if she's already there at this level at this heightened level of I'm pissed off at the world
30:45
kind of a thing because you know you know because for that one little that one little act you don't really have a
30:51
relationship yet for for you to be able to say Well I this is me kind of showing respect to you if it's something that
30:58
makes you uncomfortable then let's you know I don't necessarily have to open the door but this is how it makes me feel and all that of course you're on
31:04
the first date so you're not going to have that conversation well and and the Christopher now if that had happened I might have been able to say you know
31:10
what I'm sorry I just did this because it's how I was raised and if there's something like I I have the language now
31:16
to be able to say that back then I was just like what is the problem you know and I I
31:21
couldn't articulate it and maybe she couldn't either you know so I also don't fault her yeah I don't know what her lived experience was maybe maybe she had
31:28
had multiple examples where other men were you know belittling her and so I
31:35
might have just happened to be that Catalyst at that moment that she took it out on but you know again I I haven't
31:40
lost sleep over it my life is not incomplete because of it but it's a reminder for me of I'm continually
31:45
checking in and saying all right how am I showing up and more importantly what's the impact I'm creating and is it in
31:51
alignment with the impact I want to create yeah how do you what what advice do you give guys because I know you work
31:57
with guys all over the place in terms of like identifying you know
32:03
missing elements in along this discussion like how do you like if you're are there behaviors or the
32:09
thought process you know that yeah you know I think um it starts with just
32:15
being curious for yourself and also being aware of again I come back to the word impact so
32:22
where are you having the impact you want to create and where is it not you know we we always have impact whether it's intentional or unintentional
32:28
and so if you're not getting the results you're wanting in relationships in life look at what are the things you're doing
32:36
get curious about how are people experiencing you because sometimes we have this image of oh I I know how I'm
32:42
showing up and how uh people see me and that's not always the case so you also have to be willing to get honest
32:47
feedback from people and if it's feedback that isn't serving what you want to do you have to be willing to
32:54
change and take ownership for it as well because one of the things that we find lately is people get offended if someone
32:59
goes well I don't appreciate that you did that and it's like okay great you have every right to be offended and now I get to
33:06
decide how do I want to respond and a lot of people just get defensive and go see you know it's all them well
33:12
it takes two to tangle so how do you want to be and and what's again the result that you want to achieve and how
33:18
do you need to shift your behavior so I think that's where I'd probably start it's a curiosity and the awareness and then be willing to work on yourself we
33:25
always have to anyone who says no I've got it all figured out that's not somebody I want to talk to yeah yeah
33:31
those are not people you want to get stuck at with a part at a party right yeah yeah I will be like oh I got I
33:37
gotta go get my hair done I'll be back right right you have your you have your uh significant other or anyone else
33:45
rescue you say after two minutes can you please you know watch my face and and give me oh yeah just a second and use
33:50
Rockaway because they didn't see the fake person that you waved to that was getting dead so yeah there's lots of ways you can do it there you go so
33:56
you're you're talking mainly like that because I think a lot of men are so kind of Clueless you know that they
34:02
don't I don't know I think there are certain there's a group of men that are more
34:08
thoughtful in terms of and I mean thoughtful in terms of identifying some of this stuff that they may have things
34:14
to work on but I think there's so many men that are just like they just sit and exist right
34:19
yeah well and again for those until they start to get cured so they want to make a change it's likely not going to happen
34:25
it's that you know that's saying you can lead a horse to water right but I think that you know you have to just tune in and
34:32
really notice are you are you getting the results that you want and if you're not okay then what needs to change because in all those relationships that
34:39
weren't working there's only one common thread and that's you so if all these things are if there's a
34:44
trend it can't be that there's 25 other people that have the problem like I'm guessing you might want to like Point those
34:50
fingers back this way a little bit yeah I mean our society now is it's everybody else is always that's the problem like
34:57
the social media and and just general media and everything else is just like I we are so self-centered now but in in a
35:05
bad way like we are we Del we've dug in here's here's a news flash nobody cares
35:12
about you as much as you think they did like honestly every conversation you have they've forgotten about you minutes
35:18
afterwards even though you think that they're still thinking about you it's a sad truth but the world does not the universe does not revolve around you
35:23
although a lot of people think that it does yeah I mean uh one of my business I have a bunch of different businesses but
35:29
one of them is in the detailing space uh like Automotive detailers and
35:34
these guys there's so many of them that are constantly posting stuff like you know that hater this and discouragement
35:43
this and all that and I'm like no one cares about you enough to put the
35:48
energy that you think that they're putting in like if you have a a real detractor that calls you up every day
35:54
and tells you how much you suck that's one thing but I think that all that it's weird in this industry in particular I
36:00
don't know if there are other service industries that do it but it's you know it's like work work until you're haters
36:06
or your employees and just stupid stuff uh honestly like I don't have enough
36:11
energy to do all that you know it was I was probably in my 40s when I really owned the lesson that not everybody's
36:19
gonna like me and that's okay yeah because here's a news flash I don't like everybody and I'm okay with that yeah so
36:25
that really freed me from worrying about trying to please everybody all the time and it gave me permission just to be
36:31
myself and the great thing about that is the people that like that they want to hang around more and people that don't
36:37
they self-select out great that makes my life easier yeah it's a good it's a good filter I always I always say don't you
36:44
have a finite amount of emotional energy why are you giving it away yeah if in if
36:50
this hating if this thing is is true and I'll even put on the post on which I'm
36:55
dumping my own emotional energy into it too but I'll put on someone's post what if if everything you just said is true
37:02
even by the act of taking the time to post this on social media you are giving your emotional energy away towards
37:09
something that's a complete waste of that yeah you know there's there's two things I want to say that one there's a talk a TED Talk by a man named Drew
37:16
Dudley and I can't remember the name of it but I'll think of it and I'll send it to you but he talks about this idea of like giving letting somebody have rent
37:22
emotional space in your head and it's the idea that you're holding on to things that they've probably already
37:28
forgotten and so how much energy and time are you putting into it but the other thing that I use is I use what I
37:34
call my rule of tens and so something's bothering me I go okay is this going to bother me in 10 minutes if it does okay
37:39
is it going to bother me in 10 hours how about 10 days it's rare that I get to 10 days but if it does how about 10
37:46
weeks I've never had to go to 10 months or 10 years and so that helps me think about how much time and energy do I want
37:52
to put into this right now and if it's 10 minutes or 10 hours it's gonna be bothering me or 10 hours all right I probably need to put some attention but
37:59
if it's not going to bother me in 10 days I'm not going to put a lot of energy in it right now and and like what's the point and so that that was a
38:05
great level set for me and it offends some people because there are some people that really want to get pissed
38:10
off about things and I'm like great you do you boo boo but I'm going to let that go yeah yeah because it doesn't I mean
38:17
again if you're giving if it's that person how many other people are are in your life that you have now given away
38:23
all of your emotional energy to and then you don't actually have anything left for yourself or for the people in your
38:29
life that you care about I love the I love that 10 10 10 thing because it's and what's weird for
38:35
me is that I almost I probably never get to 10 minutes even yeah I'm not like I don't not a lot that really does yeah I
38:42
don't really care about other people's negative opinions on mine or even
38:47
positive ones like I mean I love the accolades or whatever you know that kind of stuff from the people they're a very
38:53
small list of people that I actually care on whether or not they like me or don't like me right but so but I don't
39:00
give like I don't care that you're not affecting my life that being said I talked a couple of days ago about
39:06
forgiveness and and being able even if you don't do it physically with the other person and the other person never
39:12
knows the Forgiveness part of that aspect is for you like you can you can easily forgive yourself yeah
39:18
forgiveness is never for the other person yeah stop letting them live rent free in your head why it doesn't make
39:24
any sense right and I I mean I don't know whether it's social media that seems to be something and maybe I don't
39:31
know if you agree with this it seems to be something since the social media error you know maybe this happened more
39:37
before but I I didn't see it and I'm I'm a couple years younger than you that I'm 50. so I think I I think it probably
39:44
existed but it got Amplified when we had social media because now you have these platforms where you can have thousands
39:51
of potential interactions in moments and like they've done studies you know we get these dopamine hits when we get the
39:57
likes on our on our posts and things like that and so we start to Crave it more like it becomes addictive literally
40:04
and so I think we see it more because information is much more available to us
40:09
you know I I was I was joking with my daughter the other day she's like oh hey Dad what is this thing and I'm like you know what I don't know
40:15
she just pulls out her phone and looks it up yo when I was her age I would have had to go to the library and get on encyclopedia because we didn't have the
40:21
set of encyclopedias at home or I'd have to do a lot of research and now like information is instantaneously available
40:27
which is again a blessing and a curse sometimes because you also don't know how reliable is that Source yeah that's
40:33
the problem yeah just because it's on the interwebs doesn't mean that it's legit and it's real right but not many
40:39
people they go oh I saw it on the internet so it must be I saw some statistic that said that under 25 I think they're getting 50 plus
40:48
percent of their actual information from tick tock yeah and I mean you know I'm on Tick
40:55
Tock for business and I'll search and look at you know look at different things and there's some decent content out there but like it's also completely
41:01
fabricated like everything else is you know it's so it's like literally this is where you but where do we get it I
41:07
talked to a lady yesterday and we're talking about I was we've been watching there's a Hulu documentary three part
41:13
about the Watergate scandal and we were talking about first of all the it's crazy on this and this is how our
41:20
government still works so go watch that if you don't um but they were Walter Cronkite was the
41:25
example okay because they and even the New York Post you know um Edward and Bernstein right
41:32
like they were the ones that broke the story but they they were meticulous about making sure that it was a hundred
41:38
percent factual before they before they posted it right that doesn't happen now no it would never happen like that's it
41:43
you know and even Walter Cronkite we he was a trusted guy on TV and I'm sure
41:49
there's propaganda you know Vietnam War and some of some of those you know even even with you know Iraqi freedom and and
41:56
all that but yeah it's crazy it is well we we are you know we consume
42:02
information at such a high rate that we rarely ever stop to think what is it that I'm consuming and is it good for me
42:08
or not yeah and I think we've we're losing the ability for logic and Common Sense
42:17
decision making I think you know whatever you believe about the whole pandemic thing but I mean we
42:23
so many people just lost their mind to where like now they don't even they
42:30
can't even make decisions for themselves or they're you know all that fear and and all that but well the thing is too
42:36
with the media depending on what you're listening to you're going to get more that will support it right and so regardless of
42:42
what your belief is it starts to isolate you so that you hear similar messages and it just makes it more ingrained and
42:49
if it's different than what somebody else is thinking then that just creates more division which is counter to the thing we started talking about is we all
42:56
crave community and connection but a lot of our society is creating situations
43:01
that are divisive and want to pull us apart and that's counter to being effective which and honestly it's not
43:08
you know that's their main that's the objective is because if we if they can if we can continue to divide everybody
43:13
then we have our tribe you have your tribe I don't like any of them like I you know I'm a I'm a conservative but
43:20
like I don't listen to Fox News because it annoys me every time I get on the normal news I last for five seconds
43:25
before they start manipulating the language on even if they're reporting something factually quote unquote they
43:31
they manipulate the way they talk about it absolutely why you know my my distrust
43:36
my skepticism for the media happened when I was in Iraq and we saw something happen on the ground
43:43
yet when it was reported on the news a day later it was very different and I was like really and so you know again I
43:51
remember from my statistics class in college you know question the numbers question information because any data
43:56
can be skewed to tell one story or another depending on how you present it and so I've always taken things with a
44:02
grain of salt and honestly I'd rather have a conversation and get to know somebody
44:07
um and understand who they are rather than read an article about them because I'm going to learn a lot more here than I am just reading about you because who
44:13
knows what that author of that article was wanting to prove and what their agenda might have been so yeah we'll
44:18
take it for what it's worth yeah I mean we kind of do I do some TV stuff um usually Automotive but some reality
44:24
type stuff and it's like really like the they they the way that I you always so
44:30
they identify Like a Villain right on some show story as a bad villain and
44:35
then I'm like I once they identify it early in the season if you watch Survivor or one of those things I'm like
44:41
I feel so badly for for that person because everything they say for the next
44:47
you know 26 days I think they're doing now not 39 days or whatever they like
44:53
they're gonna vilify this person for the rest of it they may have an epiphany a week and a half in and be the nicest
44:59
person most you know congenial that you can be but you'll never see it well and it's it's that bias that we have so I I
45:06
like to use example if you're walking out the door in the morning and you stub your toe and go ah today is going to suck it will suck because you will look
45:12
for things that reaffirm that belief that the day is going to suck if you stub your toe in the morning and say ow
45:18
that hurt but it's still going to be a good day the exact same things could happen to you and you'd have a good day but because you're looking for things
45:24
that will affirm that bias it's going to happen and that's part of what goes on with this stuff we tell somebody they're
45:30
the bad guy and no matter what they do we filter through lens of oh bad guy yeah and so it like we tank people
45:37
because of that yeah I always I always try to see where the person's coming from because if they're if they're a
45:43
total dick there there's probably a reason they got to that place I mean some people are
45:50
just dicks I mean there are some people in the world that I call oxygen thieves like they right
45:55
they are yeah we could do without them natural selection should take place yeah but at this but most of them have a
46:01
story on how they got there yeah yep and and I what I'm also guessing is like interact with the person that's here
46:07
just because somebody's told me this person is is a dick well if they haven't been a dick to me then why am I going to treat them like
46:13
that yeah like I'm going to treat you as a human until you prove me wrong and that I shouldn't do that but we we
46:19
believe oh because I I saw this article I heard the story about them that means who you are and so again we're
46:25
automatically biased against them to see that thing that we're looking for just like if somebody says oh man that Kevin
46:30
guy he's amazing and just really friendly then I'm probably gonna go cool he's a really friendly guy yeah and so
46:35
I've already got that bias like we're we're preconditioned based on what people tell us yeah it's funny because I with our particular brand and that deep
46:42
in that industry I've I've always called myself Switzerland like I literally get along with everybody whether they're the
46:48
detailer or manufacturer or the influencer or whatever but I I actually
46:53
have a mental list when I talk to different influencers in our industry for example I know that this guy hates
47:01
this other guy right so when I when I talk about that guy to this guy I'll say well I know that you hate system you
47:08
know so and so but I like that guy and he and I are good friends and we get along and then
47:14
we can have that conversation but it's so weird to be like I don't let that influence me whether or not I still like
47:20
that person like Middle School right who like so and so who doesn't oh I can't be your friend because you're friends with them like really come on yeah yeah and
47:28
we don't know how to be adults right like it's so it's so different there's a lot of us that don't that's true yeah I
47:33
mean I I struggle with that and still do it but you know I took a I took a business stance on it to where like this
47:39
is good for my business to be friendly with everybody and as it turns out I actually do like even though people tend
47:47
to be an obstacle to me I actually like most people right and then if I don't like you I'm not going to put any
47:53
emotional life and energy into it like we talked about so like it doesn't it's inconsequential I mean our most
47:58
important resource is time it's the one thing we can never get more of or get back so where are you investing your
48:04
time and if that person is like I said that I like to call them energy vampires as well like in an inner interaction
48:10
with them do you walk away feeling more energized or less energized and if it's less energized then stop spending time
48:15
around them yeah right it's not serving you yeah I actually had to have that that became something I had to do with
48:22
my own mom um and it made a camera it can be hard oh yeah it was terrible and people
48:28
people will be like what do you mean you don't have a relationship with your mother I'm like well it just it was you needed to yeah it it was it wasn't there
48:35
she used to send me um birthday cards with pictures of me when I was a little kid and she would
48:40
write over them this is when you used to love me so I was like all right I'm done Mom thanks you know thanks for giving
48:47
birth to me which that was about the extent of her ever her effort but what are you doing so with all this in
48:53
context what do you do to teach this you said she's what 13 14 13 going on 14. so
48:59
she's in that in that group to where she's still a kid you know but she's
49:05
starting to this Womanhood like what are you teaching her about in particular I'd love know what you're teaching her about
49:11
interacting with men you know and uh if you're if you've gotten to that you know yeah you know I
49:18
wow that's it and how has a dad like I'm trying to teach the dad because a lot of because we're dealing with the same age
49:23
group you and I right other people are listening yeah you know I think it it starts with the example that you're
49:29
setting so regardless of what you say they are watching what you do and so I could say do these five things
49:35
but if she doesn't see me doing it that message goes right out the window so that's the first thing is check in unless the example you're setting
49:43
so that's the beginning for me I'm also a big believer in in
49:48
like having her Challenge and be curious about things as well so we I tried
49:55
having the talk you know probably about a year and a half two years ago my ex and I we are great co-parents now and so
50:02
we like we realize our responsibility is Raising this young woman responsible and
50:07
so we had said okay it's about time now I know when I was probably 12 or 13 and
50:12
my mom tried to have the talk with me like I was just like Mom no I didn't want to have it so I I didn't want her
50:18
to feel weirded out about it and I really just approached it and said you know listen
50:24
things are changing and I know you're you're going to have a conversation with your mom or if you haven't already you
50:29
will um there are things that you may be more comfortable talking with her about but know that I will always be here if you
50:35
have questions and I would rather that you ask me than go hear things from your friends or look it up on the internet
50:40
which may or may not be true and if I don't know the answer then we're going to sit down together and find it but I
50:46
would rather do that than you feel like you can have this conversation because let's be real like at 13 they are seeing
50:51
things and hearing things that we didn't for many oh yeah at eight eight or nine right yeah so it's it's about being open
51:00
and honest with your kids I think and we also need to be willing to be in the
51:05
conversation when it gets uncomfortable you know I remember growing up my mom said to me if you're ever out you know
51:10
so I grew up in Canada when I was younger and so the drinking each year was 18 which meant we were in the bars earlier than that story I mean no we
51:17
weren't this is recorded um but she said you know if you're going out somewhere you know obviously don't
51:23
drink and drive but if you ever need a ride somewhere or you get in trouble you call me I will come pick you up there'll be no questions asked right we'll talk
51:29
about it the next day but like never feel like you can't reach out to me and so that's something I've communicated as
51:35
well and and I hope I never have to answer that call but if she does I will I will be there I will pick her up I
51:40
will bring her home safely and I will not give her any grief about it and then we'll talk about it yeah but what one of
51:46
the things that I really instill in her is every morning when I drop her off for school I say make good choices and I
51:51
reinforced to her that she is a good person and she has a responsibility for making
51:57
choices everything you do or don't do is a choice and so being aware of that and and again tuning into the impact that
52:03
you're creating on others those are those are some of the core things I think and there's probably more and and I'm sure as soon as we get done with
52:08
this conversation I'll think of five more things yeah I'm like I assume a total this right I really try to do my
52:14
best to help my girls understand the mentality especially of a teenage boy
52:21
and we have this phrase you know what are boys boys are dumb kind of a thing
52:27
because and not that they're they're all dumb but they they tend to be they're
52:33
not they're prefrontal cortex is not fully developed for like 10 more years so they got a lot of you know the girls
52:39
mature faster than boys so that's also a factor absolutely and I try to help them understand because I know when my wife
52:45
was a teenager she had a vulnerability and a naivety about her not because of
52:50
what she had been educated just because she didn't she assumed boys had the same thought
52:56
processes and and kind of objectives and and all that and that's just not the
53:01
boys are the enemy but I tried to teach the girls that you need to understand that this boy when you're wearing a short skirt and
53:08
think it just thinks it looks cute not you know and we can get into the discussions that he's not he's not
53:14
thinking that and that doesn't mean that that's her responsibility for that but just to understand that
53:20
this is a factor in the decisions that you're making and how you interact with with teenage boys yeah and I think part
53:27
of that comes to what are the messages that we're giving young boys as well yeah right because we don't necessarily
53:33
like I think about some of my friends growing up and the messaging that they heard from the men in their lives like
53:40
it wasn't to say you know treat a woman with respect it didn't say they didn't but you look at the examples they would
53:46
see and so if we're not teaching our boys how to treat women with respect women and non-binary and and all people
53:54
with respect then how can we expect them to yeah right um you know I I come back to
54:02
at an early age when kids are like two or three years old they often get the same message if they have um we all have
54:07
emotions we're human beings and when they're two or three or four years old we usually like we just console them and
54:14
we Comfort them when it happens but around ages five maybe six boys and girls start hearing different messages and little girls start hearing that's
54:21
okay and we we coddle them and we nurture them but boys start hearing messages like don't cry suck it up rub
54:27
some dirt on it and the worst insult you can have as a little boy is don't be a girl yeah and so what the message that
54:33
they hear is oh if I show emotions I'm not a man I'm not masculine and so
54:39
they start to bottle that stuff up which then creates a lot of other problems down the road and so we need to come
54:44
back to teaching them not just about emotions but how do we expect young men
54:50
to behave not just with women but with all people right if they don't get shown that example then they're not going to
54:57
know that's what they're supposed to do and so that's also part of it yeah I grew up in the hot rod World hot rod car
55:02
world and what's what do you see in every old guy's garage right naked half-naked women on the calendar and
55:08
absolutely all that so that's something that they were taught that that was you know kind of that objectifying and I
55:14
mean I you know it's just it's something that has to be unlearned essentially and and until you have a daughter we
55:21
sometimes don't always realize how much of that is out there like I'm sure unconsciously knew it existed
55:27
but I didn't realize how much of our our advertising and everything objectifies women I knew intellectually
55:34
but then I started seeing it in places that I wouldn't have ever expected it and that had me really go wow so if I'm hearing these if I'm getting these
55:40
subliminal messages all the time how does that not impact the way that I that I behave and so I had to really look at
55:46
that too and that's part of what's going on as well is there's all this subliminal messaging that
55:52
reinforces us right you look at um there was a study there was an article I saw the other day
55:57
some reporter um in conjunction with this this girl's parents created a I think it was a tick tock account
56:03
she was 13 or 14 and within like an hour of them being on there some of the
56:09
videos were coming up around like binging and eating disorders and a lot of like stuff that shouldn't have been on for a a non-adult
56:18
um account and they were talking about this messaging that these kids are getting especially girls about the way they're supposed to look and behave that
56:25
also contributes to the problem that's and again we're not going to solve that in this conversation but that's also
56:30
part of what we're up against too yeah it's a I mean it's funny I had to on the other side in that same vein I am I had
56:38
to create I created a new account for my business for one for one of my Brands I have like I don't know 12. but um I
56:45
created this account and I actually because you have to put male or female or you know or other or whatever but I
56:51
put that I was a male so I'm first scrolling through and I show my wife I'm like I told you that I'm not
56:59
going in and purposely seeking out these kinds of accounts this is I it's
57:04
literally been three minutes yep and it's the algorithm yeah it's middle-aged
57:10
man yeah and like they are going oh and he's got these interests and and what they start feeding you is it's just like
57:15
yeah and and of course you know I mean the the problem is that if you stop on
57:20
it or whatever because we're visual people so you can get that attention
57:26
did you ever see the social dilemma yeah I did that blew my mind of how much you know I
57:34
I get a laugh out of sometimes people talk about like you know big brother's watching all the time and they complain about everything but they carry these
57:40
devices with them everywhere and do you know how much information you're giving away oh yeah just by having this right or clicking on that link somewhere and
57:47
it's like that's all right barrier head in the sand and pretend that it's not happening well I mean we and we have Alexa in the
57:53
house which I know like they yeah so I mean which is like I mean I know what's listening to me I you know they they got
57:59
caught they got caught having humans listen to the transcripts yeah uh or listen to the recordings and they kind
58:05
of had to had to adjust the privacy settings yeah that way but my assumption is that because it it literally has to
58:12
listen to you all day long so if you say Alexa that it knows that knows you're
58:17
talking to us so it's listening to you I'm okay with that because like I don't you know whatever I I don't and as a
58:25
marketer because I do Market social media marketing too we hated the iOS 14
58:30
update because I don't know if you've done any advertising on Facebook but that that
58:35
doubled the cost of marketing to people because it took away all of that
58:42
targeting like I I could you know I for you I've got a 52 year old male who you
58:49
know you already you said on your Ted Talk you're biracial you have a 14 year old daughter you you know what all those
58:55
things I could Target down to the very nuance and now all I get is you're a 52
59:00
year old male that lives in Southern California yeah so that I have to do way
59:05
broader marketing right um which at the end of the day it's a good thing for privacy right yeah well
59:11
I'll see on on the other end of things like I'm glad I don't like there's and and I've minimized how much I'm on social media but it's crazy you know I
59:18
was I was talking with a friend the other day and I was like I was I mentioned something like oh I need to pick that up and the next time I picked up my phone
59:24
there were ads popping up and I'm like that is scary right and it's part of the
59:30
information age we live in like I don't know that I like it but I don't know how you get around it either so it's like how do we how do we
59:37
balance it we're not quite to Minority Report have you seen that no not yet yeah where he's literally walking through and they're like hey John did
59:44
you you're like it's been next week yeah we need to go arrest you now it's like what yeah we're not we're not quite
59:50
there but um well I've kept you for about an hour I appreciate you taking the time I don't know if you want to kind of some you
59:56
know give a little bit of summary in terms of like what what would be the the what's the next step for your average
1:00:02
man let's do that yeah you know here's what I'll say I I love that in the
1:00:07
conversation you and Ed had you got to this idea of talking about you know saying to your guy friends I love you yeah so so here's what I'd offer
1:00:14
if you feel like you're struggling reach out to a buddy and let them know because one of the things that I learned
1:00:21
is when I was interviewing men I would say you know what gets in the way of you being more vulnerable and it's usually around judgment or being seen as less
1:00:26
than or the core things and I then I would say so if a good buddy or shared something he was struggling with what would you say and
1:00:33
like almost every man said oh man I'd have so much respect for him or I'd feel proud that he reached out to me or I'd
1:00:38
feel grateful that that you know he asked for my help and then I'd wait for the light bulb to come on and they'd go oh so there's this
1:00:45
this idea that we have is men that vulnerability in others is usually a strength but in us it's a weakness so
1:00:51
yeah I share that because there's a guy in your life I guarantee that's struggling with something
1:00:57
so the next time you talk to him ask him how you're doing when he goes on good say how are you really doing yeah and if
1:01:02
you still get that pen answer okay but then maybe you'd be willing to go first and be a little bit vulnerable they may
1:01:08
or may not respond but that's how it starts take that conversation a little bit deeper than who won the basketball
1:01:13
game last night or you know what's going on in the races lately find something a
1:01:18
little deeper and connect that's where I'd Point guys to start because we're hungry for these conversations we just don't feel psychologically safe yeah I
1:01:26
have a at risk of talking too much about myself I actually have a perfect example that happened this morning ah let's hear
1:01:33
it so my wife and I and a group of seven other couples and and people are going
1:01:38
to the or we have a plan to go the Arctic Circle for 28 for 28 days
1:01:44
Okay so yesterday we're having this planning discussion we've got a group text going and all that and the guy had
1:01:51
posted so I have like in my head what this is going to cost um we're very fortunate that my buddy
1:01:57
has sponsorships so he actually has two completely outfitted vehicles that are like so we basically get to drive like
1:02:03
130 000 vehicle for free just pay for it yeah pay for gas and food and all that
1:02:09
stuff but he announced this other guy announced that the cost of the ferry we have to take a ferry from from Seattle
1:02:16
basically up to Juno it's 2250 yeah so I thought it was going to be
1:02:22
like seven or eight hundred dollars and so I start kind of doing the math and all that stuff and then I'm like I don't
1:02:28
know if we can afford to do this trip um you know there's always a way to find
1:02:34
the money and all that stuff I'm an entrepreneur so I can do that but I had to reach out to my friend this
1:02:40
morning who is who's one of my best probably one of my best friends in the world and we routinely say I love you I
1:02:46
appreciate you and all this so we have kind of this basic uh basis of our relationship but I had to reach out to
1:02:52
him and the first thing that I said in the text was I'm embarrassed to even have to ask you this
1:02:59
um which I am like and right because it it's a little deeper I don't need to
1:03:05
give the whole back story but essentially he has sponsors so he has sponsors that have put equipment on both
1:03:11
vehicles so he and his wife are driving one yeah Michelle and I are driving the
1:03:17
other one and I wasn't sure what his um I know the vehicle we're driving is going to be in
1:03:23
SEMA it's got a certain like it's fully outfitted and done and he's finishing up the other vehicle so I had to ask him
1:03:29
what are your contractual and sponsorship obligations and what would it look like for you if we weren't able
1:03:38
to go yeah because I didn't want I don't want to put him in a situation where if we
1:03:43
don't go he's totally screwed but I also don't want to make a a strained financial decision based on absolutely
1:03:50
feeling obligated right to him so how did he respond when you said like I'm almost embarrassed to ask he said you
1:03:57
don't need to be the first thing he said was you never need to be embarrassed with me right right like that's the and
1:04:03
and he's like I don't want I would never want you to be in a position to where you can't go on this trip no matter you
1:04:11
know and he gave me the truth because I said I need to know the truth he told me everything and it actually would impact
1:04:16
him but not in a devastating way like there's there's a hundred percent waste if we didn't go it wouldn't be the end
1:04:23
of the world right but then he he gave me essentially permission like you can
1:04:28
back out it's totally fine you don't have to be embarrassed we would we'd want to spend this time with you and I
1:04:34
mean this is a once in a lifetime we're not going to get this same opportunity again but that gave me the freedom to make
1:04:41
that decision and he put it then this is something I I love the way that he put this uh and I'll use this throughout my
1:04:47
life which is if the decision is one that creates instant and long-lasting relief
1:04:53
and to you as a result of the decision then that's the right way to go if it's a decision that instantly causes you
1:05:00
regret or will have regret in the future as a result of it you need to think really really hard on whether or not
1:05:06
that's the right decision so long story short we're gonna go firstly yeah
1:05:11
something that's awesome here's what I really want to celebrate in that though you were willing to be a little bit vulnerable
1:05:17
and he didn't stomp on you for it right and that's the message that I really want to emphasize for people we often
1:05:24
think I can't say that thing because it's not going to be well received and nine out of 10 times probably more than
1:05:30
that the other person they're human they've made mistakes and they're probably going to go no problem let's be
1:05:35
in conversation yeah so like that just makes the point be willing to go first and open up get a little deeper than the
1:05:42
the token shallow conversation we normally have and see what it does for that relationship yeah yeah because he's
1:05:48
one that he's he's he's famous in his own right but he has some you know very famous parents and
1:05:54
but he he is self-made he doesn't take any money from the family so I know I
1:06:00
knew going in that he and I can have that conversation knowing that he understands yeah where we are and to be
1:06:05
vulnerable and I you know the title of that of the podcast with Ed was I love you man and other important things you're supposed to say right like that's
1:06:12
uh that's something that I started doing a few years ago with some of my some of my guy friends and um and it's usually
1:06:20
uncomfortable for them but eventually it sort of comes back around it's just something simple like because I
1:06:25
genuinely my friends if I genuinely have if I love them it's important that they
1:06:31
know that and it's okay for me to say it well and one of the things and we won't open up this can of worms but often we
1:06:37
associate love with intimacy and a romantic intimacy and that's not what it is like the heart has an infinite
1:06:43
capacity to love I can say I love you to lots of people and it doesn't mean that I have less for other people right but
1:06:49
we sometimes go somebody says I love you that it becomes weird no it's just saying I appreciate you I care about you so yes say it more like it feels good to
1:06:57
hear it from people yeah so the more we do it the more it normalizes it I have one friend that's a little bit older
1:07:02
than us and he's a long-term hot rod guy and I always say I joke with like we made a thing that I say I love you man
1:07:09
but not in a weird way you know what but that and again cool and I'm glad you
1:07:15
can say that and it still makes me a little bit sad that you have to add that disclaimer at the end right but it
1:07:20
became a thing like At first at first it was it made him uncomfortable but the more that we say it like then it becomes
1:07:26
yeah then it then it puts more emphasis on the first part of the state yeah right because
1:07:33
try just saying I love you right see how that lands so yeah yeah his his wife uh
1:07:38
and my his wife makes fun of us and he she bought us for Christmas one year one of those best friend bracelets where
1:07:46
that has the two marches so like for us it's kind of this it's kind of this
1:07:51
running joke right but I mean I think that's a good way to do it because we have so many relationships with men
1:07:57
where it's you know humor self-deprecating humor other deprecating humor and if there's a way for you to
1:08:04
bridge those two things by using that part of your relationship I think that's okay to do yeah that creates much
1:08:11
stronger connections than than the ball busting and all that other stuff like we can say there's a place for it and
1:08:17
knowing that somebody really cares about you like that has just infinite power for it yeah yeah I have one buddy of
1:08:23
mine who's like and I know it's true he's like I love you enough that I would hide the body
1:08:29
my phone rings at three in the morning we gotta hide a body I'll probably try and talk you out of it yeah I'll do it
1:08:34
well like we're gonna that's how much trust I have in love for you so yeah for sure hey how do we find you how do we
1:08:40
get in touch so you got your own podcast so we want to know about that and everything else you get yeah so if you want to find out more about the book the
1:08:47
website is wholemandjourney.com the word hole not whole like hole in the ground uh the podcast is at vulnerable
1:08:53
dashman.com it's the vulnerable man podcast and if you find me on LinkedIn it's the one that has vulnerability
1:08:59
Vanguard in my title as well so you'll know that's the right Christopher Beale awesome well I thank you so much for
1:09:05
taking the time and uh this has been great Phil I always feel like that I could talk on these forever so but I'm
1:09:11
not Joe Rogan so I can't do three and a half hours of uh three and a half hours I wouldn't mind Joe Rogan's money though
1:09:16
like oh yeah that's that hot yeah for sure I don't think those guys are coming knocking on my door any days any day
1:09:22
soon but yeah well Kevin thank you for having me on and I appreciate what you're doing with this this this podcast
1:09:28
and helping men and I'm just I'm excited for what the future holds for you as well yeah me too thanks so much man all
1:09:35
right all right if you're looking to really maximize your life and become the man you were
1:09:41
made to be head over to maxedoutman.com and get your journey started today