Episode 22 - Your Addiction is Not your Identity (Being Your Own Cheerleader) - Tanya MacIntyre

Tanya MacIntyre, founder of Red Roof Recovery, shares her personal journey of addiction and recovery, emphasizing the challenges of traditional programs and the need for individualized approaches. She highlights the role of cognitive behavior therapy in retraining the brain and discusses the impact of trauma on addiction. Tanya advocates for self-acceptance, forgiveness, and controlling media consumption. She outlines the four steps to recovery, including self-love, forgiveness, resisting consumerism, and introduces Dr. Abraham Lowe's cognitive therapy as an alternative. Tanya encourages listeners to reject social conditioning, embrace their power, and celebrate personal victories.

Takeaways

• Individualized Recovery: Addiction varies, requiring personalized approaches to recovery.
• Cognitive Behavior Therapy: Retrain the brain with CBT for healthier dopamine regulation.
• Media Impact: Mainstream media influences addiction and self-esteem; a media fast improves mental well-being.
• Trauma's Role: Address underlying trauma for successful addiction recovery.
• Recovery Steps: Self-love, forgiveness, and resisting consumerism are crucial steps.
• Gender-Neutral Self-Love: Essential for both genders, involving self-talk and endorsements.
• Cognitive Therapy: Dr. Abraham Lowe's method identifies and describes emotions for recovery.
• Rejecting Social Conditioning: Personal power overcomes societal norms for growth and fulfillment.
• Comfort Zone Expansion: Growth and happiness come from pushing boundaries and celebrating victories.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
01:32 Life in Cape Breton and Ontario
03:02 Addiction and Recovery Journey
07:18 Differentiating Addiction as a Disease
10:09 Cognitive Behavior Therapy and Retraining the Brain
11:30 Challenges with Traditional Recovery Programs
13:16 The Role of Dopamine and Self-Management
15:36 Alternative Therapies and Practices
17:18 Medically Assisted Therapy and Personal Responsibility
18:20 The Importance of Community and Connection
20:20 Navigating Gender Roles and Expectations
22:56 Recognizing the Need for Change
24:50 Supportive Partnerships and Relationships
26:09 Overcoming Resistance to Recovery
27:14 The Impact of Addiction on Society
28:36 The Influence of Mainstream Media
32:16 Practicing Self-Love and Positive Affirmations
36:23 The Negative Effects of Social Media
40:47 Taking Control of Media Consumption
42:26 Trauma and Addiction
43:27 Acceptance and Forgiveness
43:54 The Four Steps to Recovery
45:07 Learning to Love Yourself Unconditionally
46:16 Self-Love for Men
47:21 Dr. Abraham Lowe and Cognitive Therapy
48:17 The Four Step Method
50:07 Rejecting Consumerism and Social Conditioning
52:06 Celebrating Wins and Setting Realistic Goals
53:24 Staying in the Present and Embracing Power
55:24 Pushing Outside of the Comfort Zone
57:28 Embracing Life and Refusing to Wear Masks

About Tanya:

Tanya MacIntyre, a seasoned practitioner, has crafted innovative programs—whether in person, residential, or online—integrating rational emotive and cognitive behavioral therapies. She draws from a rich toolbox, incorporating various techniques like SMART Recovery, ACT, DBT, MET, TEAM-CBT, mindfulness, and positive reinforcement to address life's challenges comprehensively.

https://redroofrecovery.com/

To learn more about Maxed Out Man and to maximize your potential, visit www.maxedoutman.com or connect with us on Social Media:

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Transcript

0:00
Welcome to maxed out man helping you
0:06
become the man you were made to be hey guys it's Kevin Davis from the
0:12
maximum podcast this is episode number 22 I'm here with Tanya McIntyre who is the founder of Red Roof Red Roof
0:19
recovery that's uh I say that 10 times fast right uh author speaker and addiction recovery specialist she's here
0:25
to share with us today and I'm super excited to have her thanks for joining us thanks for having me Kevin I'm always
0:33
willing to talk to anyone who's willing to listen so thanks for inviting me I
0:38
think we're all kind of that way sometimes hey if you want just kind of run down that's your basic uh you know
0:43
who you are what you do but if you want just go ahead and run down you know I have I know you have tons of experience and uh you know kind of run down who you
0:50
are what you do what Red Roof recovery does and then we'll kind of get into it and just have a have a discussion
0:57
well I uh hail from the East part of Canada in a place called Cape
1:03
Breton Nova Scotia a coal mining town with very very seasonal opportunities so
1:09
by the time I was 18 my dad gave me a luggage set for you for graduation kind
1:15
of my hint to get going so I've been on the road ever since and I ended up settling in a place where I never thought I'd end up is in the uh the
1:23
employment Hub of this country it's called Ontario so I'm now living in
1:29
Ontario I've been in Ontario longer than my uh home spot of Nova Scotia and you
1:35
know just etching out a living wherever we could you know the employment Hub uh saw me as a broadcaster for 22 years in
1:45
various uh radio stations I did a little bit of TV but not really comfortable in front of the video
1:51
um so yeah I joked that I've got a great taste for radio I've been I've been told
1:57
that same thing so yeah I mean I I just um recently
2:03
retired because uh it's progress my addictions progressed my drug and alcohol addictions progressed over that
2:10
22 years because we become the company we keep and everybody I hung around with
2:16
was uh basically doing the same things so I started to pack up negative news
2:23
and started embracing positive media and dealing with my addictions and that's
2:30
included a stint in a 30-day rehab and then eight years of 12-step meetings
2:35
relapsing every year and just learning from every relapse and then finally
2:40
finding something called cognitive therapy with a group called smart founded in Mentor Ohio
2:47
about almost 30 years ago now and cognitive therapy resonated with me
2:53
um it just it seemed to work for me it doesn't work for everybody but it worked for me and then with covid
3:00
um Everybody migrated online and addiction rates doubled and both my
3:06
husband and I lost our jobs because of vaccine mandates and we thought what the heck are we going to do now and the only
3:12
other thing I knew was recovery and I thought well I'll just share what's worked for me and I have had five
3:19
consecutive years now of complete abstinence so it works for me congrats that's
3:25
awesome thank you thank you I come from some of my my dad's an
3:31
alcoholic he's been recovering for you know I don't know 20 30 years now a long long
3:37
time um but like they say you're always recovering right and he then he had cigarettes and then I don't know what
3:44
his addictions are now he's in his in his early 80s so maybe golf um my mom
3:50
um we ended up having her to to eliminate our relationship because she
3:57
was just uh kind of too toxic but I kind of grew up in a family where she was you know alcoholic Drug Act all that kind of
4:03
stuff from a very young age and and so I was kind of the adult in that relationship at seven or eight so uh all
4:10
that to say I I have a familiarity with the addictive side of things and um
4:17
that's interesting so what are the what what are the stats with with kovid and
4:22
an addiction um they're not good Kevin uh addiction rates and suicide rates with them have
4:28
more than doubled in North America I don't know about the rest of the world but in North America they've more than
4:33
doubled and we're going to be feeling the Fallout of this for generations to come long after I'm I've shuffled off
4:39
the Mortal coil uh your generation will still be dealing with it and your children and
4:45
grandchildren will still be dealing with it it's uh it's unlike anything that we've ever experienced before
4:51
so I uh I I'm a bit big advocate for the power of uh a person that you know I I
4:59
still go to 12-step programs I never bashed 12-step programs there's a lot to be said for them I think they're
5:04
excellent personal development programs uh a little too shame based for my liking but I still go to 12-step
5:11
meetings because it has excellent gear support and I still sit there in my circle and
5:18
when it comes to my turn I say hi I'm Tanya and I'm grateful to be here I don't label myself an alcoholic or an
5:24
addict or a junkie or a druggie or anything else because those labels are not helpful labels belong on food that's
5:32
where we should leave them um and I'm grateful to see the medical community finally evolving to stop using
5:41
uh stigmatizing language like a drug addict and alcoholic
5:46
it's finally science is uncovering the reality of addiction is
5:53
that it's a chronic condition a medical condition that affects everybody differently and we're going to have you
6:00
know different reactions to different drugs and different approaches different modalities so the key I think is I like
6:08
that acronym key keep educating yourself find what works for you and then do more of it
6:13
that's awesome I would um can you go into more of the differentiation and what they're doing
6:19
now because I'm not I'm not well versed obviously because I just called my my mom a drug addict and my dad an
6:24
alcoholic so I know so which is fine this is not a world
6:30
that I live in you know necessarily we we my wife's allergic to alcohol and uh
6:36
because of my upbringing it was just it just has not been alcohol drugs anything like that other than maybe caffeine uh
6:43
and sugar she's a pastry chef so you know I I have my own sugar addiction which I think so many people do but like
6:50
it's not really part of our world that you know we don't hang out with people that drink and we you know so unlike you
6:57
being in the broadcasting thing where I'm sure there's alcohol in the studio uh at the time uh you know we kind of
7:04
don't kind of run in that so how does that how are they differentiating those things how does that fit into where it's
7:09
like this is a disease versus personal responsibility and and all of those like
7:16
I'd just love to learn more about that whole scenario yeah I'm still on the fence around the
7:22
disease thing not sure how I feel about that terminology because I think we fall
7:27
into that a little bit too much we can become our diagnosis mm-hmm
7:33
so I like to uh kind of distance myself from that wording because our you know
7:38
our words are powerful and I often tell the story about outcome studies because I'm really big on give me evidence-based
7:45
results I want to know what the outcome studies are based on the evidence
7:51
and there was a very significant study done in the United States at one of the
7:57
major hospitals in an emergency room setting and the people knew that they were taking place
8:03
taking part in an outcome study but they weren't sure what it was so we took the same group of people the same 10 people
8:10
working in an emergency room setting and when you're introduced to a patient in
8:15
an emergency room setting you're you don't see the patient you see a piece of paper the admittance one and the terminology used at that point
8:23
it's about 10 or 15 years ago was substance abuser and so now they've
8:30
got this patient um is known as a substance abuser and then they are pulled afterwards they're
8:36
questioned to say okay what what is your opinion about this person collectively
8:41
all 10 of those emergency clinicians said that that person was culpable for
8:47
their behavior they were responsible for their their condition and that they deserved criminal punishment if
8:53
warranted so then Weeks Later the same group of clinicians are introduced to
8:59
this same hypothetical patient this time however uh he is introduced on
9:05
the same piece of paper the admittance form as having substance use disorder or
9:10
alcohol use disorder AUD sud and now when that same group of
9:16
clinicians is pulled and questioned on how they can how what's their opinion now of this patient they say that this
9:23
patient the same hypothetical patient is now completely capable of a full
9:29
recovery with the combination of medication and therapy so that's the difference as to the how
9:36
we're using that language those labels yeah that's crazy yeah no it can either
9:43
create the stigma and perpetuate it or it can diminish it instantly so I'm
9:48
really sensitive around how we talk about addiction and Recovery because addiction as far as I can see is a
9:56
biological vulnerability I think we're born with a deficiency in dopamine and
10:02
we learn early on that we can relieve this deficiency with drugs alcohol some
10:11
behavior that gives us that um normal regulation of dopamine but then
10:18
of course we're training our brain that it's going to need more of it to get the same results so right right it progresses over time
10:26
that's my belief and everything that I'm learning uh kind of reinforces the idea that it's a
10:32
biological vulnerability it's not a character flaw it's not a moral failing I'm not even sure it's a disease but
10:39
it's a chronic condition it's a complex condition that affects all of us differently and it's going to take an
10:46
individual approach a one-on-one approach which is what I've developed in a short period of time
10:52
we've we've also kind of stuck with that age-old remedy for addictions when
10:58
military personnel were the most common people affected by addictions and they could only get 28 days off in a row
11:06
so and the only place to get recovery was in a hospital setting so they would get 28 days off and they'd be sent to
11:12
the hospital to get better and we have kept this modality of recovery it's old
11:18
it's ancient that's even the movie right that's uh that's the Sandra Bullock title of that Sandra Bullock movie right
11:24
I mean I was in a 30-day treatment facility I'm grateful that I was there
11:30
that it was there it was very costly um did I need 30 days well not likely so
11:37
what I've done I've created something who is my ideal client me someone's like
11:42
me so I was a professional who was managing just barely managing my
11:47
addictions I didn't lose my house I didn't kill anybody drunk driving I didn't have any DUIs I still have a bit
11:54
of money in the bank you know I had a house a car a career so I was what some
12:00
people call a high functioning a person with addiction which again I don't like that terminology either
12:06
I was managing my life just barely by digging on
12:12
and I didn't want to announce to my colleagues that I was challenged by addiction who does right I
12:19
I was the be all end-all right that control thing however if I had been able
12:25
to take one week and check into somewhere and have one-on-one intensive therapy like you
12:32
know get get me the resolution right now I need it now that resonates with me and
12:38
it seems to resonate with a lot of people who are in that position I found myself in all those years ago
12:45
well that's my Approach it's one week it doesn't take a long time to recover it
12:50
takes a persistent willingness to exert consistent efforts to help yourself and that's CBT you're doing cognitive
12:57
therapy and um so that how does that work you know I
13:04
talk to a lot of different people about we've talked about porn addiction and sex addiction and all and all these
13:09
different things which essentially it comes down to that dopamine norepinephrine receptors and how your brain uses it and all that
13:16
so with cognitive behavior therapy how does that address the chemical nature of you know dopamine receptors and how you
13:23
know because essentially with any addiction you as I understand it you are there is a not a complete rewiring but
13:32
there's a sense there's a dopamine sensitivity issue and those kind of things does the brain just do that automatically
13:38
well we need to retrain our brain and that's why cognitive therapy cognition is just thinking so it's questioning all
13:46
of our thoughts and retraining the brain so we've we've
13:51
trained our brain to react to substances and behaviors to give us that hit so now
13:59
we have to retrain the brain to not need those hits to get them in healthier ways
14:05
so we have a pharmacy living inside of all of us all we have to do is activate that to generate our own healthy
14:12
dopamine levels without substances and behaviors so we do things like eating
14:18
good healthy food if chocolate is your thing you know a little bit of chocolate can sometimes give you that little hit
14:25
that you need exercise getting out in nature walking cycling
14:31
uh meditation I'm not a big meditator um I I like the short meditations that
14:37
are available on places like insight timer one of my favorite Canadian doctors Dr Beau he's a pediatrician at
14:44
one of the hospitals on the west coast of Canada he has healthy mental health meditations and he's got their three
14:51
minutes I love them I love his voice and he's you know very structured I like a structured you don't give me fast
14:59
give it to me now uh so yeah I like the the three minute meditations I can sit
15:05
and give my attention to that and that seems to work for me I do I do cold plunges and and kind of
15:13
and kind of that's kind of tends to be my prayer time which is you know essentially a little bit like meditation
15:18
and I you know the research is pretty solid with norepinephrine dopamine response over the next three or four
15:25
hours after you've done the cold plunge and I can tell like I didn't I I
15:30
purposely don't do it on Sundays typically because I'm trying to give my because it's a systemic
15:36
stressor you know which is which is part of the part of the response but I could
15:41
tell the difference in energy levels you know my attitude and all that on the days that I don't do it and we're not no
15:48
it's like I'm not a I'm not crazy like some of the guys are with that do the IM off method whim off method but you know
15:55
we're at 51 degrees for three minutes um and which is cold enough
16:02
but I mean these some of these cold plunges go down to 34. uh degrees Fahrenheit obviously and uh
16:10
so you're you're there close to zero Celsius just right above freezing and uh I I don't do that but the physiology of
16:17
that is very similar uh the physiological response I also do heat therapy I have a little sauna that's
16:23
underneath my base underneath my stairs um that I could do yeah I I do a little
16:29
I do both so I exercise heat therapy cold plunge and uh that and so yeah that
16:35
that's interesting that there is no pharmaceutical intervention required I
16:40
guess you could you could say that in terms of if you know what medically assisted therapy uh Matt m-a-t medically
16:47
assisted therapy is is quite effective for some people and you know I I don't
16:54
poo poo that at all it's just there's always a danger that we um that safety net becomes a hammock
17:01
and I think we're better like I you know my my schtick is at the end of my
17:06
podcast and my phone calls everything I do even when I'm leaving my friends I say May the force be with you and
17:12
remember you are the force right right you are the forest and I think people
17:19
who are fans of 12-step programs they've relinquished their power to you know a
17:26
power greater than ourselves and I could never get on board with that because
17:31
you know I but I like the snappy slogans right take what you need and leave the rest so I still go to 12-step meetings
17:38
because they do have an integral uh part of my life for sure for the peer support
17:45
and yeah the the community aspect of those programs is probably probably the
17:50
most effective part of it but you you know everything else gets kind of wrapped up into it and I never really
17:56
thought about the shame factor that whole you know making amends and you know kind of going hat in hand to
18:03
everybody you've ever wronged which I I do see you know the Forgiveness factor I always say forgiveness is for us not for
18:09
the person we're forgiving um and so I see that there's a benefit with that clearly but yeah I'm sure that
18:16
the the community factor is definitely something that's huge right the opposite of addiction is connection so I think
18:22
wherever we can get that connection is important and I think you know when we when the whole world migrated to zoom
18:28
during covet um it was nice to have that connection but it's not the same as a personal
18:34
connection yeah and I think different people handle that kind of thing differently I think it I think it depends on you know a
18:41
little bit introvert versus extrovert and and you know some of those I mean it was funny because I had a um I had
18:48
another guest a couple of days ago last week we were talking about extroverts and how dopamine
18:53
is a central part of an extroverts the way they actually get a dopamine hit
19:00
by being with other people and so it's that you know and and supposedly they get that hit every time
19:06
they're with people where someone like me who I I play an extrovert on the internet but I'm actually more
19:12
introverted I don't get a dopamine hit from other people so it's you know it's
19:17
it's really um it's interesting that different but but however most of my friendships are worldwide I don't have a
19:23
ton of friends locally so I've actually gotten used to developing relationships that are more remote based but I don't
19:31
in my case I don't feel slighted that way but like you said everybody everybody tends to be different but
19:37
clearly the data would show that during covid all of that stuff just completely crushed us as a society
19:45
um and how great for you Kevin to uh willingly admit that you are an introvert right because
19:52
um you the name of your program maxed out man uh I've been married to a
19:57
wonderful guy for 32 years and I we have a discussions all the time about I am so
20:03
grateful that I was not born a man in this world what you guys have to you know your
20:09
whole purpose is to perform and provide right it's like you just stay on task
20:15
you know real men don't cry you get her done yeah and it's a huge burden to
20:21
carry so good good for you for being vulnerable for reaching out to for admitting that you know what I'm an
20:27
introvert uh it takes every ounce of energy to come up into this camera to
20:33
say this so yeah I admire that so thanks for being out there and representing the max don't man well I appreciate that
20:40
yeah the whole maxed out man thing has actually dual meaning and when I did it I didn't really think about that it
20:46
could mean someone that is Max at their Max it's more of maximizing your
20:51
potential and your and who you are as a man that's but it's it's funny that it's both but I've I've had three or four guy
20:58
guests on here that uh are kind of like let's be a full version of what a man
21:05
can be masculine but masculine uh just had a a guy on the other day that we
21:11
were talking about being masculine but embracing the more traditional feminine side which is caring and support and
21:20
loving and and I've been married for 28 years actually and um yeah and that's
21:25
what I've I've I've tried to be for my bride I always call her my bride but
21:31
um yeah it's uh it's definitely a challenge I I joke with my young with my girls who are now 25 and 24 and I'm like
21:37
you have no idea what it's like to be an upper middle class white guy in today's society so
21:45
that's right we we definitely are so if you're someone so how to how does
21:51
someone come to that realization and as part of their Journey that it's you know
21:56
that someone like yourself who ultimately we're not down in the gutter you know
22:03
figuring out how you woke up outside of this bar one weekend you know it was
22:08
like how do you get to that point for someone that's listening is like well I know I
22:14
kind of have a problem but everything's still kind of going well like what is that what is that road look like for
22:20
people I think everybody's different uh what I love about cognitive therapy so I was a
22:27
facilitator with a group called smart self-management and Recovery training and again I love the structure that they
22:35
have to their program so there are stages of change and I relapsed in
22:41
12-step programs for eight years so I wasn't ready to accept my condition for what it was that
22:48
moderation of drinking and drugging is not in my wheelhouse it's not something I'll ever be able to do I had to accept
22:56
that I would need to go and learn how to enjoy a beautiful meal without a glass
23:02
of red wine and it's just something I wasn't willing to accept for eight years talk about
23:08
stubborn so I think uh everybody is different
23:14
you know even in 12-step meetings when I I share my story I've had some people say well you really
23:21
you weren't a real alcoholic okay I didn't realize there were higher I
23:27
didn't realize there was a hierarchy of of alcoholism normally you know oh yeah but you know everybody's Rock Bottom
23:33
that's another term I dislike everybody's Rock bottomed everybody's unmanageability is going to be different
23:39
and mine was being sick and tired of being sick and tired I was just
23:46
dragging my ass through my life every day and you know sometimes staggering to
23:51
bed like on on the stairs on all fours getting upstairs to go to bed because my husband and I were on different shifts
23:57
all the time so you know we used to communicate by notes for most of our marriage and you know I I did most of my
24:05
drinking alone when I announced that I had addictions to drugs and alcohol most
24:10
people were shocked because I hit it so very well I did most of it
24:15
alone so you were you weren't a real alcoholic but you were a really good you were really good at it definitely
24:22
yeah so I would I would be able to socialize I could go out and have two or three drinks with friends and then I'd come
24:28
home and have two or three bottles wow yeah that's uh and how did that
24:33
impact your husband and what was his what's his role as the you know supportive or unsupportive partner in in
24:40
this scenario well it was amazing for sure he uh still is I mean he lived with
24:46
me through my addictions and now he's living with me through my recovery a whole different ball game right and he
24:53
you know he said when you come out of uh the rehab he said I wouldn't really kind of afraid for our marriage because I
24:59
thought maybe you wouldn't like me anymore when you were sober wow yeah yeah
25:05
well he stuck with me he's uh he's a wonderful life partner I lucked I lucked
25:10
into making a good decision yeah I uh I did that as well and I'm not
25:16
sure sometimes I wonder if my bride uh wonders about her decision making but yeah so I definitely so how is thing how
25:23
have things changed and I you know granted my assumption would be that things are even though you have
25:29
different challenges things are much better than they were before uh yeah definitely I would never have
25:36
imagined and I love being able to talk to people now about their addictions uh
25:42
because I attract people like me I am my ideal client and lo and behold the universe is delivering clients to me who
25:50
are just like me and I can totally relate because I live that way for most of my adult life
25:56
so now when I'm talking to men and women who say oh my God I can't even imagine living like what's the point of living
26:03
life if I can't you know have a you know a ecstasy pill or
26:08
something to get that little bump of that I need or you know a couple of shots of this to give me
26:15
and glass of wine with dinner another that can't you mean I'll never be able to have a glass of wine with dinner ever again no I can't like what's the point
26:22
of leaving a living yeah and I I can totally relate those patterns of thinking because I did it for eight
26:28
years relapsing in 12-step programs it's like oh my life will suck if I can't
26:33
drink or drug like this is this is all I've known all my life so what am I going to do if I can't do this
26:39
and that's the Habit part of it I mean it's it's part yeah so that that actually just becomes part of your habit
26:45
like for me like I've never had a glass of wine with dinner so like I would it would be super weird but we had some
26:51
issues early on in our marriage because we made the decision that we weren't going to have alcohol in the house
26:56
and so like you know my wife's brother is a drinker you know and it's like the
27:03
whole family that's just a big part of it they talk about wine which the you
27:09
know there's you don't ever really want to have conversations with vegans about veganism crossfitters about CrossFit
27:16
cigar lovers about you know about cigars or wine drinkers about wine because
27:21
they're all the same they all just want to talk about it you know and it just becomes this very important obviously
27:27
very important thing with them and and for me alcohol really I don't I don't think it tastes good it doesn't really
27:34
improve anything you know at the end of the day so that's something that just
27:40
doesn't is not isn't doesn't really resonate with me so it's it's good that you I mean it's it probably gives you a
27:46
great opportunity to speak to people at a level that someone like me I would I could never speak to them this way
27:52
well I think it realizing what alcohol is like you said it's uh you know the
27:58
fact that the conversation stops in a restaurant when this bottle of wine is
28:03
being introduced in the table and the conversation has to stop over a bottle of grape juice yeah that's been
28:09
fermented um and like you say it doesn't doesn't taste very good it's not good for us at
28:14
all and it's a toxin I mean it's literally a poison in your body the fact that it's legal is nothing short of
28:21
Madness for me to think that it's you know because of course the taxes yeah
28:27
are considerable and even through Kobe the fact that the government in all its wisdom decided to
28:33
keep the liquor and beer storage yeah it's essential essential business
28:39
right that's the yeah I think again that key keep educating
28:44
yourself to the you know our government endorses poison because of the tax base that it brings
28:51
in and that's you know the self-love aspect I people who know me say oh you're not
28:58
going to talk about that Louise Hay mirror exercise again are you and I don't know if you're familiar with Louise Hay her Legacy is Hay House Radio
29:05
she was an extraordinary woman who talked about the fact that we uh we
29:12
are beaten up from the time we're born and by the time we are adults we don't like ourselves very much because we've
29:19
been socially conditioned that we need to go out and buy something or take something to feel or look better
29:25
so she has a a mere exercise you can YouTube her Louise Hay mirror exercise
29:31
and she used to do it with this little heart-shaped cosmetic sized mirror and
29:37
she said now I just want you to look at yourself in fear and she's just such a it was one of her
29:43
books actually changed the course of my life it was the the guy who ran the treatment facility in Spain that's where
29:51
I ended up going in WoW yes and he was actually had a Buddhist background even
29:56
though the the program the modality they were using was 12 steps he was a Buddhist and he gave me Louise Hayes
30:03
book you can heal your life as part of my homework for the 30 days so that was a gift because she was the soft warm hug
30:12
I needed when I needed it right when the when the students ready the teacher appears Louise Hay was that softwarm hug
30:19
I needed the one I never had from my own mother so her her voice resonated with me you know the the more I read the book
30:26
and was like oh my God I love this so I would go into the mirror and I was so lucky that I was the
30:32
only woman uh on that side of the complex so I had a bathroom to myself oh nice yeah and I used to go in and you
30:39
know she would say you can do this I love you you're worth it you just go in there you look in your eyes and you say
30:45
I love you and you're worth it so I I remember the first day Kevin like it was yesterday and this was oh my gosh almost
30:51
15 years ago now and I put my hands on my heart and I looked in the mirror and I can't even
30:57
remember the last time I looked at my in my eyes in the mirror and when I went to open my mouth to say I love you I just
31:04
started to sob and cry I couldn't even utter the words and I but I listened to
31:10
every morning I kept on going back I really want this I really need it and it
31:15
took months I mean I couldn't even do it in the 30 days I was there but I had her
31:20
book with me and I read it and her words still resonate with me rest her soul she
31:26
was uh still is a valuable mentor to me and will be until I shuffle off the Mortal coil so that mirror exercise I
31:34
always encourage everybody to look start your day that way look in the mirror put
31:39
your hand on your heart and say I love you and you're worth it and it works what's your experience you
31:46
know obviously I mean I'm sure you're familiar with the Saturday Night Live sketch with Al Franken
31:52
re uh and so like we literally make fun of that so I'm curious what your
31:58
experience I would my guess would be that for men that's much more difficult than
32:04
but it's kind of both right like women have many women have more of a self-loathing
32:10
than men do however in order to get to that point that you're discussing is
32:16
probably more difficult in a different way it's difficult for each of our genders but what's your experience
32:21
seeing men and talking through men doing that because I would feel I mean that's like get in touch with your feelings
32:27
stuff right like so but like I mean that's one thing I've
32:33
been you know as I have more of this discussion these discussions I'm I've I found easier to explore but I'm
32:39
wondering what you what your experience is there it's interesting that you ask about the
32:44
experience with men because uh men have a very difficult time with it so what I
32:50
suggest to men who can't utter the words I love you because it's just it's just
32:55
not there um take a picture of yourself as a child and put the picture of the child on the
33:02
mirror and tell the child that you love the child that's easier for men to do and it has the same result
33:09
oh that's good I like that a lot I actually have a picture up on my wall of my bride as she's probably five or six
33:16
and I've always when I like I I want to treat her not as a
33:22
little girl but in that same like as if I'm caring for her with that heart you
33:29
know and that that might sound you know I don't know if that sounds chauvinistic or whatever but it's it's something that
33:34
I do so that kind of inner child stuff we had uh I've had a guest on to talk about the inner you know different
33:39
stages of inner child and um all that but yeah that's that's great advice it's funny that we make fun of
33:45
that you know so much and that probably makes it more difficult what do you think about you know it's it's kind of a
33:54
weird dichotomy with our society right because we literally are the most ego driven Society
34:01
you know that that ever existed thanks to social media most of it is you know
34:08
culminate like it's um cultivated right everything is cultivated but we have a
34:13
website that is billions of people that's called Facebook like we look at our we want to show people our faces yet
34:20
we are probably the most miserably oriented people in terms of
34:26
we love ourselves but we hate ourselves at the same time it's a really weird a weird time
34:32
I don't think we love ourselves if we're referring to social media I call it anti-social media I think it's um
34:40
it's a really unhealthy um
34:45
social conditioning programming that's happening with social media and again the Fallout from social media is going
34:52
to be felt for generations and I think all the bigwigs in social media don't let their children use social media
35:00
first absolutely they don't none of them do it's really that probably is pretty telling right right you think that we
35:06
would take a lesson from them that they don't expose their children to
35:11
it so why are we exposing our children to it yeah that's 100 percent
35:17
so that's where the conditioning comes from mainstream media I was part of mainstream media for 22 years Kevin and
35:23
you know I always say that they perpetuate the fun Factor Fear uncertainty and doubt
35:29
and that's what they're in business to do my job was to create embellished
35:34
facts and come up with a sensational headline if it bleeds it leads or
35:40
Sensational the better it's it's a it's a downward spiral that just doesn't
35:46
help anybody yeah I just we just watched a documentary on the Watergate scandal
35:52
there's a three-part documentary on Hulu which I thought was really interesting but obviously propaganda has always
35:57
existed and being someone that you know along these lines of this conversation because you were in broadcasting this
36:03
has nothing to do with addiction but accent probably does but I'm interested in your thoughts on how because you made
36:12
the statement that you've you've moved from the negative aspect to positive news right and how does positive news
36:19
fit into the objectify you know objective news that we no longer have because we're 100 subjective
36:26
entertainment based news because they were you know they showed a lot of Walter Cronkite right you know Walter
36:32
Cronkite was kind of the poster child of what objective News man on TV looked
36:40
like you know just report the facts and um but I'm just curious about your thoughts on that because it's something
36:45
that I feel like I hate the media I try not to it's it's it's horrendous that I
36:52
don't like you know I'm a conservative but I hate Fox News you know I don't watch CNN I don't watch MSNBC any of
36:58
those broadcast networks it's just not for me but good I'm so glad to hear that Kevin and when I suggest to people that
37:05
they take uh you know take the diet that really works I say hey take a media fast don't watch read or listen to news and
37:11
feel how much your life improves and they say oh come on like I can't live like an ostrich with my head in the
37:18
sand and I'm I'm thinking no that's not what I'm suggesting just don't expose
37:23
yourself to mainstream media messages because all that's doing is conditioning
37:29
you to believe that you're not good enough until you go buy something or take
37:34
something to feel better or look better and just taking back your power right you
37:41
are the force so take back your power stop being sucked into consumerism I
37:47
mean women are beaten up by mainstream media all the time but we keep feeding these multi-billion dollar industries of
37:54
beauty and fashion and cosmetics and you know injecting Botox and
38:01
breast enhancements and all I love Celeste Barber she's an Australian lady
38:07
who's quite popular on social media thank goodness she's one of the positive aspects of social media
38:14
and she makes fun of some of the fashion messages that we're getting and she does
38:22
an excellent job on it and I'm I like the fact that she's exposing the absurdity of these industries and
38:29
encouraging men and women you know men are getting the same messages my nephew
38:36
he has something called Williams syndrome a neuro developmental Disorder so he is you know physically and
38:42
mentally affected for the rest of his life thankfully he doesn't have a high Behavioral or medical issues but you
38:49
know he's like a Perpetual five-year-old and he's my sister is very uh strict
38:56
with him around media but he loves YouTube and before she paid for the uh
39:04
message free version he would go and he would have one hour on YouTube now
39:09
YouTube is the second most watched medium in the world now and just after one hour of being exposed to those like
39:17
you know 15 second messages he came back to the living room to announce that he
39:22
had to lose weight and remove all the hair from his chest that's crazy after just an hour so those
39:30
are the messages that we're getting constantly I think the last number I
39:36
heard is that well I think our brain we have like 50 to 70 000 messages that
39:41
we're processing all the time but most of them are negative our English language dictionary has three times as
39:48
many negative words to positive words so we have to work three times as hard to even formulate a positive thought
39:54
so we've got all of these things working against us so it takes a constant persistent effort to offset it to say
40:02
hold on I'm going to be the gatekeeper of my mind here to be more selective about what I'm absorbing into my mind it
40:10
takes a persistent effort oh 100 and it's funny because if I now occasionally
40:15
like will watch CBS News or something one night I can't even get through the
40:21
first five minutes because I'm like the subtle when you're not used to hearing it the subtle wording
40:28
that is so manipulative the way that they say I mean even the way they talked
40:34
about the covid ex you know everything that happened with covid and and the I mean you know complete Fabrication in
40:40
some cases in a lot of cases but just I mean they can talk about almost anything
40:46
and put a spin on it that changes the meaning but not enough that most people
40:52
notice but enough that it gets your attention and implant something um and that negative that negative
40:58
message towards a particular group or a particular activity or yourself you know
41:04
whatever those things are because like again it's it's a joke but like to be a conservative white guy in America like
41:12
you said we're the Pariah right like we're we're meant to not to feel badly about who we are as a person and for
41:19
what Uranus Nest truth is it's like oh my God come on people let's stop talking to reconfigure the past and just move
41:26
into the future yeah yeah and how how do those messages fit into the addiction
41:31
model the modality and how does that kind of get us to where where we're I mean you can use covet as an example if
41:38
you want obviously there's lack of social interaction and too much free time and quote unquote free money and
41:45
you know all of those things how does that how does that fit it all fit together
41:51
well like I said addiction affects everybody differently and I think I agree with the Canadian doctor Dr
41:56
gaboramate when he says I mean he worked in Vancouver's East Side for a dozen
42:02
years and that is recruited to be the most chronically addicted population in North America
42:08
and he said everybody I saw on a daily basis who were challenged by
42:16
addiction they all had one thing in common and that was Trauma from childhood
42:21
now you know we all process trauma differently was I traumatized as a child well I didn't really feel traumatized I
42:29
wasn't really abused uh you know there was a an early childhood divorce my my
42:36
dad ended up being a single parent because my mom was addicted to alcohol
42:43
so yeah maybe there was a trauma there you know I had to help raise my baby sisters so I was very young raising a
42:49
child which is probably why I didn't have children of my own I think parenting is the most important job in
42:54
the world and I didn't feel equipped to do it for sure I could barely look after myself so I think uh you know we all process
43:02
trauma differently we all process life differently and for me it came to
43:10
I think a point of acceptance unconditional acceptance for myself for others and for life
43:16
and you talked about the Forgiveness earlier um I often say to people in 12-step
43:22
programs if they do come up to me after a meeting to say you know I know this that you didn't say you're an alcoholic or an addict why is that
43:28
and I kind of jokingly say well I'm actually infiltrating these meetings now with something called cognitive therapy
43:36
so it only takes really four steps to recovery for me at least learning to
43:42
love myself learning to forgive myself learning to forgive someone who isn't
43:47
sorry and learning to oh what's the fourth one oh my gosh I'm embarrassed
43:53
now I can't remember it might come to me it's in The Ether there somewhere but then that see there's that
43:58
unconditional love learning to love yourself unconditionally hard place to get to for a lot of us because we're
44:06
socially conditioned to be consumers you know you need to buy something or take something to feel better or look better
44:12
so it's resisting consumerism and I don't even know if I answered your question Kevin I can't remember what it
44:17
was yeah we were I mean basically I was I was trying to get at you know kind of what covid and some of that you know
44:22
pushed push us more towards addiction but I think that that's a that's a great um you know that's a great some
44:28
summation of what it is that you're you know we're looking for the fourth one learning to forgive someone who isn't
44:34
sorry oh okay yeah that's um lots of people aren't right that's that's right
44:41
you have to accept that some people aren't sorry for hurting us yep yeah we did one of my guests last week we talked
44:47
about just with men and kind of that the the self-love aspect for men is a
44:54
little bit different I think that that and you can you can speak to this but since this is a largely male audience
45:00
um or I mean it's kind of mixed but it's you know maxed out man right so uh we
45:05
tend to be very hard on ourselves you know I'm a big self-deprecating humor
45:11
kind of person but at the end of the day like I may I'm a I'm a highly
45:17
functioning um low self-esteem kind of guy so which
45:23
I I'm I've pretty much determined that all men have low self-esteem and we just mask it in different ways we all have different masks but in terms of like
45:30
loving yourself as a guy what do you like the same strategies like it's
45:36
because there's you know we do have a different makeup than women do and you
45:41
know are there certain strategies you use that may vary for men versus women in this in that regard
45:47
well you could try the uh the picture of a child of yourself and talk to the
45:52
child you could go by and just you know give yourself a high five or a thumbs up you know you've got this I really really
45:59
like you yeah we're doing a good job whatever works for you you just um I
46:05
think the self-endorsing is really important and uh you know I I also uh I'm involved
46:12
with another group um and this is not addiction recovery this is life uh recovery it's called
46:19
recovery International we have a division here in Canada as well recovery Canada and that promotes the work of Dr
46:26
Abraham Lowe who incidentally was hanging around with Dr Bob and Bill of
46:31
the 12-step program that in the mid-30s and I think it was Dr Abraham Lowe who
46:39
actually developed what we now call cognitive therapy because he was
46:44
encouraging people then to look at your thought patterns um really delve into them
46:51
describe them and he gets into angry temper or fearful temper so two kinds of
46:58
temper and the angry Temperance temper that we uh we direct this retribution
47:03
outward around other people and then the fearful temper is The Temper that we direct toward ourselves that anger
47:10
that's directed inward that becomes that manifests into chronic illness I think
47:15
so he started this in the 30s when he was working as a doctor in institutions
47:20
where they were giving people shock therapy and it wasn't working in fact it
47:25
was creating more problems than anything so he wanted to come up with an alternative and he has something called
47:31
the four-step method and again it needs give me something fast yeah I can do the
47:39
four steps and it really encourages you to don't get caught up in the drama of
47:44
life adversities just be very succinct about what's pissing you off like one
47:49
sentence what's got you worked up what's got these heightened emotions because heightened emotions I think
47:56
that's that was part of my thing very young is that I had all these heightened emotions because of all the adult [ __ ]
48:03
that was going on in my life and I didn't know what to do with it as a child so then I discovered oh I could
48:08
take a shot of uh vodka or whatever was going around with the adults and oh
48:14
suddenly that diminishes that anxiety that angst
48:19
those heightened emotions so with Dr Lowe's approach you just one
48:25
sentence what's got you worked up what's generating these high emotions and then what are the emotions because I didn't
48:32
even know what my emotions were I just knew that I wanted them to go away I wanted to numb them to get away from my
48:39
I didn't want to be in my skin anymore so now describing these emotions it was
48:45
a real challenge for me because I didn't really know how to describe my emotions I numbed them for so long
48:52
so he gets into real details about how is it feeling what's it doing in your body and in these groups I I encourage
49:00
you to check out one of the meetings recoveryinternational.org and every meeting is different so if you hit one
49:06
and don't like it go to another one because you know the different facilitators do just administer the
49:11
program differently so you can it's a it's one of the like tells people the
49:16
same thing about 12-step meetings right it all depends on who's chairing the meeting and what kind of people are
49:22
there just keep going to meetings and find what works for you and then you get feedback from the
49:27
people in the meeting with self-endorsements or tools they call them and they're like affirmations and
49:34
self-endorsements and I think that's really powerful because life kicks the crap out of us and we are conditioned by
49:43
society that uh there's something wrong with you if you want to celebrate even
49:48
though we're an achievement-based Society if you celebrate your achievements it's frowned upon right
49:54
even my dad used to say oh you can break an arm that way patent yourself on the back yeah I've heard that before right
50:02
and it's like no even though we are in achievement-based society and we're told
50:09
that we are self-centered and egocentric and stuff I don't think we are
50:14
I think we're an altruistic Society most of us are empathetic and compassionate
50:20
and generous but we've been socially conditioned to be consumers
50:25
so again I think it's being aware of this programming the social conditioning
50:31
and being selective about these messages and what you're you know like I often
50:37
say to people and I don't mean it to be mean I just want them to be aware of how they've
50:43
fallen into this consumer trap you know they've got a double car garage and their two cars are parked outside
50:49
because there's no room in the garage because it's filled with crap that they don't use
50:55
but that's because we could condition to do that as consumers we live in a capitalist Society so we need to consume
51:02
and here we are yeah yeah I um I do some real estate development and I can tell
51:07
you that one of the best investments is what Self Storage yeah
51:14
right yeah right that's a that's a pretty high margin thing and you know even the back side of that where people
51:20
don't pay the rent and then you sell what's in it because they never saw it you know any of that yeah and making series on television yeah yeah it's it's
51:27
pretty crazy but to your point about celebrating things we we I do a lot of stuff where I'm telling people as part
51:34
of your morning routine is setting some goals you know doing kind of basic today gold setting but one of the primary
51:40
reasons to do that is so at the end of the day you can celebrate your wins so like that's that's super important to
51:47
not because I'm my wife and I just had this conversation about the to-do list
51:52
always has to Do's on it there there really is no I have 10 things on my list I'm going to
51:58
get 10 things done the end okay give me the next 10 things it doesn't work that way especially for someone like me
52:04
that's an entrepreneur with way too many Brands and businesses and all that but what we try to do is we set realistic
52:10
goals in the morning that we know are achievable for that day and then at the
52:15
end of the day we can review them or the next morning we can review them and it may be as simple as you know call that
52:22
one friend that you haven't talked to in a while or shoot them a text or you know email or
52:27
however you want to communicate but that that part of and that seems to be a logistical step that most men can kind
52:33
of get behind is because it's you know it's it's goal of achievement but it's it's not like hey I need to get
52:40
everything done on my to-do list by 10 30 this morning because you're never going to do it but you can you can pick
52:45
those things that I think can help you you know celebrate your wins yeah my daily motto is what can we do
52:51
from where we are with what we have today so very much living in the presence in
52:57
12 steps we have we often recite the poem yesterday today and tomorrow is that we you know often find ourselves
53:04
ruminating about the past which creates a lot of depression or we are projecting
53:09
into the future which creates a lot of anxiety so learning to stay in the present is really important I think that
53:16
one day at a time and I've also adopted the Tibetan cup ritual it's the cup of
53:22
life and death some people find it a little bit morbid so at the end it's pragmatic not morbid right like that's
53:29
the at the end of the day I take this little ornamental cup and I turn it upside down
53:34
so the Tibetans believe that at the end of the day you turn the cup upside down and it represents not just the end of
53:41
the day but the end of your life I'm kind of hoping that's how it goes for me that I die peacefully in my sleep that
53:48
would be a good way to go and then in the morning when my eyes open it's like wow I get to do it all over again and I
53:55
turn that cup up and I give thanks and gratitude Express gratitude for all my
54:00
blessings and I'm ready to give and receive and there is something really powerful about that that process I like
54:08
that because the imagery is not only yeah that cup is empty in the morning and then it's it's empty at night right
54:13
because like you filled it during the day which is the presence present but then it doesn't there I don't know if
54:19
this is part of it but in my mind it can represent that once it's turned over the future you can't put these false
54:26
narratives into the future that you're creating for yourself right so that's great well I think that this is a that's
54:32
a a good place to kind of wrap things up I don't know what leave us with maybe one one other piece of advice and you
54:39
can reiterate you know whatever else you want to um but I I'd love to hear kind of that
54:44
and then we'll then we'll kind of get you you know how to find you I think
54:50
um staying in our comfort zone it's a it's a great comfort it's a wonderful place to be
54:56
um but it's it's not a good place for growth so I think pushing ourselves outside of our comfort zone so
55:02
for me this the social again social cons conditioning around uh addiction
55:08
I kept my addictions hidden for a long time and it wasn't until I started speaking
55:14
publicly about my drug and alcohol addictions that I I started to feel
55:21
um a new and different kind of Direction
55:27
that it's like okay we've been sending the wrong message that addictions
55:33
deserve to be anonymous right it's this covert operation and I think we need to be loud and proud
55:40
about the struggles of not just addictions but of life and life
55:46
adversities you know life Monty Python Life's a piece of [ __ ] when
55:52
you think of it that's right yeah and how are we going to deal with life adversities without killing ourselves
55:59
with harmful substances and behaviors I think empowering ourselves to get
56:05
outside of our comfort zone to reject the social uh conditioning and
56:10
programming that we get I mean you know we're sent to school to become obedient complacent taxpayers uh start fighting
56:17
that early all right the earlier the better uh refuse to get sucked into consumerism uh
56:25
you know and embrace your power because we are powerful people and I I most
56:33
recently got out of push myself out of my comfort zone to become involved with Community Theater I'm going to be
56:40
playing Hamlet's mother um correct which is really funny and something I would never have
56:47
imagined doing even just a couple of years ago so I think really pushing yourself
56:52
uh to try new things I I even tried Rock like the the wall rock climbing rock
56:58
climbing walking something I might enjoy no I hate it but at least I tried it right right just to keep pushing
57:06
yourself out of your comfort zone and speaking of the theater one of my favorite quotes comes from Shakespeare
57:11
all the world is a stage and all the men and women merely players so decides what
57:19
role you're going to play in life right and uh refuse to wear the mask just be
57:24
you and play the role that you want to play in life because it's short yes
57:31
we'll live it to the max 100 I love that so I'm guessing we're not going to find you on Facebook and Instagram but I know
57:37
you have a LinkedIn and a website right thank you and you will find me on also
57:42
oh okay you just you just go you you do what I do on a lot of them which is they
57:48
call it post and ghost right right don't engage much but I'd like to just
57:53
keep my message consistent for sure okay so that's at what's what are the where do they find you on those Red Roof
58:00
recovery okay I'm I'm so grateful that you know I've got this love hate going on with Google now but uh yeah if you if
58:08
you just Google Red Roof recovery uh you'll find me okay perfect well I'm uh congrats on the five years right you're
58:15
you're you're on five years so that's awesome and um yeah if anybody's you
58:20
know either dealing with the addiction side or they think they may you know need to deal with it feel free to reach
58:26
out to Tanya or you know somebody locally look at cognitive you call it
58:31
cognitive therapy or cognitive behavior therapy you know those those are some great resources as well so I appreciate
58:38
you taking the time and I hope you have a great rest of your day thanks Kevin May the force be with you Kevin
58:43
everybody because it's in me right I am the force right yeah right I love it
58:51
looking to really maximize your life and be
58:57
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