Episode 21 - Facing Your Own Crap...and Coming Out the Other Side - Dr. John Schinnerer

Dr. John Schinnerer explores masculinity, man box culture, and self-awareness in this episode. He delves into his journey and passion for positive psychology, highlighting societal expectations on men and the limitations of man box culture. The conversation challenges traditional masculinity, advocates for embracing a full emotional spectrum, and touches on gender stereotypes. In a separate segment, Dr. Schinnerer emphasizes the foundational role of self-awareness in personal growth, offering practical tips for cultivating it. He discusses metacognition, distancing from negative thoughts, and the importance of humility in the journey of self-exploration. The episode concludes with Dr. Schinnerer sharing his contact information and additional resources for exploration.

Takeaways

• Societal expectations and man box culture limit men's emotional expression, leading to negative consequences.
• Men should access their full spectrum of emotions, challenging traditional masculinity.
• Self-awareness is foundational, enabling understanding of emotions and behaviors.
• Cultivating self-awareness and embracing authenticity leads to personal growth and healthier relationships.
• Practicing metacognition and creating psychological distance from negative thoughts builds self-awareness.
• The journey of self-exploration requires humility and facing buried emotions.
• Challenging unconscious biases and interacting with diverse cultures broadens perspectives, cultivating humility.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
03:21 Dr. John Schinnerer's Background
10:59 Masculinity and Man Box Culture
18:27 Impact of Anger and Emotional Expression
23:21 The Role of Femininity and Gender Stereotypes
31:43 The Importance of Self-Awareness and Humility
03:40 Creating Psychological Distance
05:25 Developing an Out-of-Body Mind-Body Connection
08:39 The Journey of Self-Exploration
09:39 Facing Buried Emotions
11:30 The Never-Ending Work on Self
12:26 The Different Levels of Self-Exploration
13:20 The Importance of Humility
14:30 The Value of Curiosity and Awareness of What You Don't Know
15:49 Connecting with Others to Cultivate Humility
17:32 Situational Humility and Growth through Challenges
20:24 Challenging Unconscious Bias
21:38 Exposing Yourself to Different Cultures
25:59 Beliefs About People and Trustworthiness
26:28 Different Realities Based on Beliefs
27:27 Interacting with People in Different Situations
28:30 The Importance of Trust in Society
29:12 The Problem with Narcissists
32:02 The Ongoing Journey of Self-Healing
34:09 Connecting with Others on an Emotional Level
36:48 The Integration of Business and Personal Life

About John:

Meet Dr. John Schinnerer, a seasoned Ph.D. and coach with over two decades of experience. His expertise lies in guiding individuals, including Army Rangers, Navy SEALs, CEOs, elite athletes, and high net worth individuals, toward success and happiness in every aspect of life. Dr. John's passion centers on the convergence of high performance, success, and happiness. Tune in for insights on leadership, health, relationships, purpose, work, sex, and self-mastery. If you're seeking to optimize your relationships, work, and overall life, you're in the right place. 

TheEvolvedCaveman.com
GuideToSelf.com
TheUltimateRelationship.com 

To learn more about Maxed Out Man and to maximize your potential, visit www.maxedoutman.com or connect with us on Social Media:

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Transcript

0:00
Welcome to maxed out mad helping you
0:06
become the man you were made to be hey guys it's Kevin Davis from the maxed
0:11
out man podcast this is episode number 21 we're here with Dr John schenerer right that's that's the proper
0:18
pronunciation uh Dr John has a PHD and coach for over 20 years and he now
0:24
refers to himself as a court jester so we will uh we'll let him explain that a
0:29
little bit more but he works with Navy Seals CEOs does Consulting um and basically you know wants
0:35
everybody to be the best they they can be we were talking about the the Army tagline be all you can be uh earlier but
0:41
hey man thanks for coming I appreciate you joining me and uh why don't you tell us you know that's your basic intro but
0:46
I'll let you expound on it yeah absolutely thanks thanks for having me Kevin I appreciate it
0:52
um yeah let's see so I I guess to give you the five minute version
0:58
um hey we can take 15 I don't you know we we we can all the time you want so I
1:03
I learned early on that I needed to be overachieving and highly success
1:09
motivated I think to get the attention and love from my parents was kind of how I oh okay
1:14
figured it out right because they were the same way and so by a senior in high school I was
1:20
killing myself I was student body president I was taking Advanced courses I was Captain of three varsity teams
1:27
and I'm sure from the outside looking in it looked you know amazing like wow he's killing it and I'm like no I'm just
1:32
killing myself um and my intro experience was you know I was proud of what I was doing and yet
1:39
I was exhausted all the time I was depressed some of the time I was anxious a lot of the time
1:45
um and generally I was just kind of miserable and it really started me questioning this idea of success like
1:52
what is where is their idea and success for things like happiness contentment
1:57
relaxation purpose um and you know I just had the questions
2:02
back then but and it worked I got into a good college and studied philosophy which I like the joke
2:08
prepared me to do absolutely nothing but uh you know 20 years later I came full circle with positive psychology you know
2:14
to Aristotle's question of what is the good life um and then went into to UC Berkeley in
2:19
a PhD program in psychology and and really the reason I went into that was because I wanted to find out more about
2:25
the emotional part of me I'd always been a pretty smart guy but the dumbest most embarrassing most
2:32
shameful stuff I've done in my life was when that emotional mind was in charge of me right anger boredom excitement
2:40
depression anxiety whatever it was and I was like what are these damn things that keep
2:46
coming up that I can't seem to really get my hands on and it it frustrated me
2:53
um so fast forward became a school psychologist was working in uh you know High School in Fremont and the
3:00
kids would come in and share their stories with me which were filled with anger sadness guilt shame fear rightfully so I didn't realize at 25
3:07
that emotions are contagious that we can pick them up from other people unless we're trained to do otherwise and so it
3:15
ended with me getting depressed when we get depressed inflammation in our body goes up so the old injuries that you
3:20
have come back for me it's my low back so I remember when my back goes out I'm
3:26
in pain I'm depressed hope you know does a suicide Swan Dive out the window and I'm thinking this is ridiculous like
3:33
if I can't manage my emotions how can I teach them to and so rather than kill myself I decided
3:40
to look for the best scientifically proven tools to manage that darker side of of ourselves anger fear slash anxiety
3:48
stress guilt shame sadness slash depression and you know that was a I
3:55
would say a third of the answer but it helped now I had a lot of tools to teach others and fast forward I left the
4:01
school district I did an entrepreneurial venture for about seven years it went well until the economy crashed and then
4:07
my economy or my company crashed as well um which that brought up a lot of issues
4:12
around you know failure yeah your success and failure is a man success
4:18
our masculinity is tied up in that [ __ ] and um
4:24
so I had to reinvent myself and I started getting into positive psychology which is the scientific
4:31
Pursuit of Happiness purpose meaning positive emotions engagement flow
4:38
um and I was like oh my God this is amazing and I got really excited after reading I don't know like a thousand
4:44
studies and I thought people need to know this because now I've got the tools to turn down the volume on the negative and tools to turn up the volume on the
4:50
positive and I really like 600 pages of a book on how to coach people towards a
4:55
successful and happy life and then I thought [ __ ] No One's Gonna read it yeah 600 Pages even if they want
5:02
to be happy it's like ah no screw what's the cliff notes Tolstoy does psychology right
5:08
so um but that rough draft got me a a radio show in the Bay Area and
5:15
they asked me it was a Christian radio station which you know I kind of stepped in it a couple times but it was a live
5:21
daily prime time radio show which when it was offered to me that really
5:26
kicked my anxiety into high gear because Berkeley doesn't train you to do radio
5:32
shows right and it's live right you're probably yeah and and Berkeley trains
5:37
you that the only things you can say have to be backed up by good studies which
5:44
doesn't really motivate anyone to do anything yeah because then you're just you're
5:49
just following you're you're kind of creating a narrative based on based on the studies you know it's it's factually
5:55
based yeah it speaks purely to your intellect yeah and I don't think our intellect motivates us at a core level
6:01
to do much of anything right the intellect comes in after the fact and creates a narrative but I would say it's more the emotional
6:08
mind is what we need to speak to in order to get people to be willing to change
6:13
and so I had to learn over time how to emote on air how to be authentic and
6:19
vulnerable how to tell a joke in a vacuum which is weird you know tell a joke and there's no response I can see
6:24
my producers laughing on the other side of the glass but there's no audio feedback I'm like right this is really weird
6:31
um I learned how to tell stories and then I got to interview a bunch of world-class experts which was incredible
6:37
um so I kept learning and ended that after a year opened up Private Practice in Danville started with positive
6:43
psychology which back in 2005 was kind of lukewarm so I turned to anger
6:48
management which is where I really started working intensely with men although you know women are angry too
6:54
um something which was made abundantly clear to me when I didn't I created an online anger management course
7:00
and this was a while back and the people that were advising me said find a niche so I was like okay
7:06
riches are in the niches right yeah and and so I was like and and so I went live with it and I
7:13
started getting emails from Angry women all around the world like hey buddy we're pissed off too what about us
7:19
sorry it's not personal they just told me to find a niche so I changed it that's like the most
7:24
ironic thing ever that they're they're pissed off about an anger management course and so they're sending you angry
7:30
you know it was I was laughing behind the scenes anyway um
7:35
so I started doing anger management got tired of that after about 10 years and
7:41
started working more with Executives and businessmen and and kind of high performers so to speak
7:46
and that what I realized pretty quickly is
7:52
that in my estimation in my opinion the biggest source of their pain was actually at home
7:57
and was actually in their relationships which you know often could be extended to the relationships
8:03
at work but it The Source the biggest source was at home with their spouse
8:09
and then you know by extension the teenage kids at that point and and so on and so forth so I started teaching them
8:15
relational skills how to be better in relationship and one of the things I love about that is I could work with the
8:20
CEO for example and say you know here's a tool that works I want you to practice this with your wife and oh by the way
8:27
this works with your kids as well and oh guess what bonus this also works with all your employees as well
8:34
um and then started looking more recently in masculinity and man box culture
8:42
um and how and explain explain what man box I've not heard that term before man yeah
8:48
absolutely so thanks for asking um so man box culture is how we are
8:56
socialized starting out as really young boys and and this really takes place in most
9:01
of the cultures on the planet there's a few exceptions um but how we're socialized in terms of
9:09
what we learn it means to be a real man what are the rules of manhood
9:16
and it starts research shows it starts about the age of four or five as soon as we get in groups of boys so preschool
9:22
kindergarten starts out innocently enough and then you know kind of picks up speed as we get to middle
9:28
school and high school and never really stops for some of us especially for those in paramilitary
9:35
organizations like police fire or the actual military um
9:41
and the rules consist of things like don't back down be aggressive compete
9:47
dominate women be self-reliant be the provider
9:53
um don't ask for help don't be gay don't be feminine
10:01
and you know there's a few others and and we can argue kind of you know the good and bad of each of those and and I
10:07
think you know just like I've really thought about each of these like be self-reliant like in general
10:13
that's a pretty good value but if we think about self-reliance on a one to ten scale where one is I'm
10:20
completely dependent on another person or other people that doesn't really feel good to me and
10:26
if you take it all the way to a 10 I don't rely on anybody I'm not going to
10:32
ask anybody for help I'm going to do it all by myself that's more common in the men that I
10:38
work with that that extreme that that end of the scale and it's really problematic yeah I didn't I tend to
10:46
vacillate between five and ten like but I have to be very delicious I have to be very yeah I have to be very deliberate
10:52
to pull myself because I my family situation was weird and raised myself from seven and all this stuff so so I
10:59
and I became a workaholic and blah blah blah but I I I have to then be and I I
11:05
try to do everything I do deliberately but I have to be deliberate to move away from my natural tendency to be because I
11:12
always had to be so for a little bit and I think I'll survive strategy yeah so it became a survival strategy but yeah it's
11:18
being closer to the middle of that Continuum is definitely more advantageous oh well I think we want to
11:24
vacillate somewhere between you know maybe a four to a eight but we have to do that with intention with mindfulness
11:30
and because I've seen too many men that like won't ask for help when they're depressed when they're anxious and have
11:36
a great deal of Shame about it I've seen men that won't ask for help or won't go to a doctor or they you know they have a
11:42
rotting tooth and they won't go see a dentist like that kind of stuff that's that's really problematic yeah that's that's kind of dumb
11:49
it's also it's like you know my arm my arm fell off and you know I can totally take care of it where's the duck where's
11:55
the black diet and Monty Python and the Holy Grail right it's it's the flesh wound right um so you know we can argue kind of the
12:02
good and bad of it but the the biggest problem that I see is this rule of be stoic don't feel
12:11
and how are we for swearing on this podcast you do whatever you got to do okay sometimes sometimes the swear word
12:18
is the best word well I I'm not swearing just to swear I'm swearing to describe what we go through growing up right yeah
12:24
absolutely and so um I apologize in advance if this offends anyone it's not meant to it's just meant to I think we
12:30
have to talk about this yeah um so when we're growing up and this is I would usually say Middle School to high school
12:36
if you show Too Much sadness or fear in front of others because a lot of people tell me a lot of men say like I never
12:41
got this stuff from my dad okay fair enough you don't have to get it from your dad although you might where you
12:47
will get it is from peers maybe coaches athletic coaches and definitely from media movies social media all that stuff
12:54
especially now let's see well yeah so much worse than because you you and I are a similar age we didn't have that
12:59
you know didn't have an issue uh it's pretty early and so if you show Too Much
13:04
sadness or fear in front of others at some point you're gonna get these messages one of these messages don't be
13:10
a [ __ ] don't be a little [ __ ] don't be a little girl yep now there's other insults I can throw in there but those
13:16
three are the epitome of the feminine I mean truly the height of the feminine and the message there is don't be
13:23
effeminate right and I don't think it takes getting that message many times I really thought about this maybe three or four times
13:30
and we go holy [ __ ] I'm never showing that again that's painful it's embarrassing it's humiliating it
13:36
disconnects me it makes me entire belonging yeah like yeah and so we jump back in the man box and we shut that
13:43
side of ourselves down on the other side of the emotional Spectrum if we show too much joy love Romanticism excitement
13:50
flamboyance God forbid if we move our body in the wrong way literally we'll get don't be gay don't be a fact yeah
13:57
again I don't think it takes many times getting that message before you're like I'm never showing that again
14:04
yeah and I mean I remember in elementary school there was tests like you know how do you look at your fingernails
14:10
and if you looked at your fingernails one way versus another way one was gay and one
14:16
was not how do you oh yeah yeah I never actually thought about that but that that's something on the bottom of your
14:21
shoe how do you look at it if you pick up that foot and put it in front of your plant leg
14:26
versus behind your plant leg one of those apparently you know was gay and one was not that's crazy like that's how
14:33
stupid this [ __ ] is though yeah but it's it's so pervasive
14:39
and so the question then becomes what can we what emotions can we cop to or can we
14:45
demonstrate without fear of humiliation without fear of disconnection from our
14:51
male peers and I would say it's three things I would say it's lust because if I if I'm with a group of guys
14:57
and I say oh look at that ass in those genes or she's so hot I would sleep with her it signals I'm straight so that's
15:03
yeah um and that's where I think you know cat calling kind of comes into this whole
15:08
man box piece which I am not a fan of at all yeah by the way I never understood that as a
15:15
strategy like what do you think that woman's gonna come back and like yeah what your digits like seriously what's the purpose of that not once in the
15:22
history of that exchange has it ever resulted in a woman unless she's a you know does it my daughter's 17 and she
15:28
gets that a lot and it pisses me off anyway so there's lust there's stress
15:33
because if I tell you Hey Kevin man I have brother I've been so stressed lately it kind of implies I'm busy or
15:39
important so that's safe and the big one is anger some degree of anger and think of anger
15:47
on a one to ten scale in terms of intensity a little bit irritated slightly annoyed
15:52
kind of frustrated all the way to anger to five all the way to Incredible Hulk enraged at a 10.
16:00
but anger is safe for us because who's going to call you out when you're already angry right and that anger
16:08
Dynamic is so destructive for us because if you and I are in an argument
16:14
and we're at a five or above on that anger scale all I'm trying to do is get you to
16:21
understand how right I am and how wrong you are and I'm externalizing all blame for the
16:28
situation unto you it's all your fault if you would just stop being such a fill in the blank I wouldn't be so pissed off
16:35
yeah and you're using that to intimidate and when it's useless right like
16:40
what's the point of that other than you're out of control with your anger and the thing that kills me about this is
16:46
it's such a go-to emotion for the vast majority of us but it completely separates us from the possibility of
16:53
learning growth and evolution because it completely Cuts us off from
16:58
introspection it completely disconnects us from huh that Curiosity of huh what's my part
17:06
in this like what did I do to upset Kevin and what can I work on
17:11
what could I maybe do differently so I mean that's a little bit about the
17:17
man box um yeah and I think it's just tragic here's the other big takeaway for for listeners is I really like this idea
17:25
because it's not our fault none of this is our fault in the sense that we did not ask to be socialized
17:32
like this it just happens and it happens I believe as a way for society to create
17:37
soldiers because it only happens in areas or countries where we have bordering
17:44
Neighbors and we have scarce natural resources so there's a threat of invasion of
17:51
someone taking whatever those resources might be in Island cultures where resources are plentiful and there's no
17:57
bordering neighbor masculinity develops in a far different way there's a tripartite or tripolar version
18:05
of masculinity where you've got someone more traditional masculine you've got traditional feminine and then somewhere
18:10
in the middle is this hybrid and it's okay for men or women to
18:17
be that and it's very accepted like if you think of a lot of um Pacific island cultures it's
18:24
it's very loving and nurturing of the man or the father to cook the meals for the family for example
18:31
right or to wear skirts for example I mean different climates but you know so all this stuff is fascinating to me
18:36
because it it tells me that it's driven by culture driven by Society
18:42
um and it's learned and even and I think that actually exists in even you know far more male
18:48
dominated you know even if it's quote unquote male dominated those that ner that ideal of
18:55
masculinity actually would lean more towards what we would consider in the Western World to be more effeminate yeah
19:02
yeah and so the whole thing kind of fascinates me and I think I don't think most men that I talk to
19:08
even stop to think about this and it's it's the mask that we wear because we're trying not to show our emotions and
19:15
there's there's absolutely no space between our self and the mask and so
19:21
right one of the things I like about this concept is I think it's a way to allow men to get a slight breath of air
19:28
or slight psychological distance between self and mask to begin to be curious about it in a non-defensive way and just
19:35
say huh so what parts of masculinity are working for me what parts would I like
19:41
to change and how would I like to change them what am I what's the impact of my masculinity on people around me that I
19:47
care about yeah how can I be here secure in my masculinity
19:53
rather than having an insecure masculinity which I'm convinced that all men
19:59
are insecure like I I you know at the at the core of who we are I think a lot of
20:04
our or I've come to believe that a lot of our Behavior ideal and and morals are
20:10
based on our own insecurities and and again the way to deal with your insecurity is to throw on a mask yeah you want to externalize blame for it too
20:17
yeah you know to put our worst Parts out and project them onto some vulnerable group
20:23
for example yeah and it's it's really interesting because I think that that whole behavior that you're talking about
20:30
in avoiding the effeminate um it presumes that the feminine is weak right like I think
20:37
that's the that's at the center of that my wife and I um so my wife was a stay-at-home mom then kind of
20:44
turned rally racer car builder SEMA you know she's had she's a welder she does
20:50
baking and so that gave us an opportunity to actually she did two all-female builds for this trade show
20:57
called SEMA which is the special equipment manufacturers Association it's in Vegas every year the largest
21:02
Automotive trade show in the world so like people have this goal as a car builder
21:07
to get a vehicle into this show and she's had her vehicle that she's personally built twice and then two
21:13
other vehicles that she's built with all female teams so she and I am fortunate because I'm
21:19
self-employed that she and I were able to participate in this and I'm obviously the you know I was like the sandwich boy
21:26
and the guy that swept up but we're around surrounded by 70 80 trades women
21:35
that are you know extremely strong well-versed in a male dominated culture
21:41
and all that so like when I think of and you know I always joke and say they would throw quarters down on the ground
21:47
so I would bend over and pick them up I got that I got that I got that reverse sexual harassment which was an
21:53
interesting yeah my wife said oh you loved it and I was like well okay but um but this idea of the feminine being
22:00
weak you know Trevor Noah has this whole bet about the [ __ ] right I don't know if you've seen seen that yeah I love
22:07
Trevor Noah yeah but it's the idea that the feminine is the weaker part of the
22:12
weaker weaker choice is always just fascinated me because it's you know it's not out of fear right yeah you know we
22:19
men can't give birth and so I think out of that insecurity or
22:25
fear we needed to put it down because it's we need to put down the feminine because it threatens the hell out of us we need to control it
22:33
um I forgot where I was going with that oh I was going to say that your wife is
22:38
actually you know because I I've your wife is an Exemplar of what we're shooting for in a sense because I've
22:44
been on interviews like this and someone said once well it seems like you're arguing for the wisification of men
22:51
I'm like well you haven't been listening because what I'm arguing for is
22:57
an Embrace or an acceptance of our full spectrum of humanity over masculinity so
23:03
I want the clients that I work with to have full access to every part of their
23:09
humanity and then select those parts that serve them best in any given context or situation so for example
23:17
if I'm playing rugby if I'm playing rugby or soccer it it works for me to be
23:22
traditionally masculine right be tough be aggressive don't back down be competitive play for the win all that
23:28
stuff and I've done that if I'm on date night with my significant other
23:34
it pays for me to have access to a different different aspects of me to be
23:39
loving romantic um poetic even to be calm to be
23:46
nurturing and you know there's other masculine parts of that too protective like and yeah if you come around the corner and
23:52
there's a group of guys that are there to try to Rob open doors or yeah you know like pull the chair out like and
23:58
then if I'm with my let's say two-year-old daughter and she falls and skins her knee then I need to be again calm nurturing
24:06
gentle quiet reassuring and I think most men that I work with
24:12
only have they have limited access to some of
24:17
these parts of themselves or maybe they're embarrassed or out of touch with some of these parts and so
24:23
you know I have nothing against traditional masculinity but it's one tool in the toolbox
24:29
it's one gear in the car right and you need multiple gears right
24:36
that's it yeah so I mean like in my case to get that opportunity to see and it's
24:41
I've talked about on the podcast before but the the interesting thing about this group of women is that they're in a male
24:47
dominated field and they actually tend to go to the other side of the Continuum which
24:53
they put on they kind of wear these false bravado masculine identities in order to protect
25:01
themselves because men in those trades are just dicks I mean that's just you know it's it's uh they treat them like
25:09
crap yeah very man box they treat women like crap they they assume they don't know anything human sexual objects yeah
25:15
I mean these guys are these women are and I said guys but these women are are uh you know professional welders that
25:22
weld on titanium and make a quarter million dollars a year and you know all have businesses and all this stuff and
25:27
yet they get but I always think it's interesting because they then will put on what we would see as a masculine set
25:34
of traits and you bring up a really good point because gender is separate from sex so I look at
25:41
gender as masculine to feminine and all the variations in between and sex is male to female along a spectrum but
25:48
those two aren't like you can have a masculine or a masculine dominated
25:53
female I think that was my mom or you can have a more feminine male and anywhere in between
26:01
and and a lot of women that I talk to that are in like corporate USA they have to adopt more masculine traits
26:09
as a means of survival and as a means of being successful climbing the ladder
26:15
yeah to not be dominated like anti-domination to enforce firm boundaries too sometimes
26:22
yeah um it's it's an interesting game that they play because yeah and it's I mean again
26:28
corporate USA Women they're in a double bind in a big way in the sense of they
26:33
if they show too much emotion they're too emotional they're too
26:39
feminine if they don't show any emotion at all they're cold-hearted [ __ ]
26:44
there's not even a line to walk because it's based on the other person's perception of them
26:50
and they're going to be judged harshly on either side of that line yeah it's um
26:56
yeah I I don't like I don't envy that at all I talked to Michelle my wife about
27:01
that all the time and and um you know she is actually a very feminine
27:07
woman so like this is a you know she like I said she kind of reinvented herself after our girls left
27:13
and uh but it was very difficult so she did these off-road rallies and it's around so she's surrounded by these
27:20
women that have that kind of they lean towards the masculine in terms of how they you
27:25
know their bad asses and they don't need any you know they go on the other side of that continue from a female
27:30
standpoint I don't need anybody I'm self-reliant I don't need no man you know that I mean seriously like they say
27:37
that stuff and for her it was like she and I have developed this relationship where we do almost everything together
27:43
so we've built Brands and and the brands are based on us which has been great for
27:48
us because it gives us an opportunity to show people what a marriage of 28 years yeah can actually can actually look like
27:54
and what that relation you know because it's weird right it's weird to have a happy marriage after 28 years yeah who
27:59
does that that's counter cultural right there I know I don't know I don't know what we're doing wrong dictionary
28:05
two artists it's yeah right that's uh it is a little crazy but with her in
28:11
particular one of the things that um we've noticed is that she tends to be the kind of the girly girl uh goody
28:18
goody person but she essentially has been able to kind of embrace what would
28:24
be a more masculine uh man's role but also maintain that and then this is what
28:31
draws people to her and we've actually seen people kind of been drawn to her and kind of
28:37
um kind of reach out to her in that way well that's what I'm saying it sounds like she has access to all parts of
28:43
herself oh she definitely does which I think is what we're shooting for self-awareness is a foundational skill
28:49
and without self-awareness there's there's no possibility of growth
28:55
because you think you're you're doing great and research from Tasha Uric shows that 95 percent of us will report being
29:03
self-report being highly self-aware and in truth it's only about 10 to 15 percent of us which is a massive problem
29:10
yeah because if we all and shows out not shows shows how not self-aware we are right yeah and and and and you know in
29:17
truth we're actually creatures of habit we are automatons most of us go through life mindlessly
29:23
and just following habits without much thought or awareness or intention and so
29:29
self-awareness is a foundational skill without that the growth doesn't happen um because you don't think you need any
29:34
growth right and there's two relatively easy ways to begin to build
29:41
self-awareness metacognition um and metacognition is thinking about thinking
29:47
um and one of the key skills that you want to develop there is this idea of psychological distance or being able to
29:52
step out of that thought stream and get some distance from it so you're not fused with your thought Stream So
29:59
when that thought comes of you know I'm an idiot I don't believe that offhand like just
30:04
immediately and then start looking for evidence to support the thought of I'm an idiot because I can find evidence to
30:09
support that in my past because I've done stupid stuff but it just ruins the emotional quality of the moment or hour
30:15
or day for me um so so it's a matter of it's a it's a
30:21
matter of recognizing that you're telling yourself you're an idiot and then be able to process that other yeah the idea is that we we can't stop the
30:28
thoughts from coming so let's say in my case I may still have that thought of oh I'm such a dumb ass yeah which is kind
30:34
of one of my classic Hall of Fame negative automatic thoughts me too so that thought may still come but you
30:41
can't stop the thoughts from coming but you can change how you relate to the thought so now
30:48
on a good day I'll see that thought and I'll be like Ah that's [ __ ] like I've seen that before I'm just gonna let it go
30:56
I'm not going to stop and dwell on it and look for evidence to support it right
31:02
and so the the easiest way is to begin to build this skill is to Simply pause
31:07
three times a day take a deep breath and ask yourself what am I feeling right now
31:13
and do a body scan and just kind of check in you know what's my heart rate doing where am I holding muscle tension
31:19
how's my GI tract doing what's my throat doing shoulders neck that kind of thing
31:24
and that also builds the skill of interoception which is our awareness of
31:30
the internal workings of our organs which is key in all this but
31:35
um the beautiful thing about this is that studies show that just doing this three times a day will help build
31:41
metacognition and self-awareness and the kicker to it is the answer doesn't matter
31:47
oh so take your best shot you can't screw it up I love things that we can't screw
31:53
up um the other one that I'll throw out there is from Ethan cross in his book chatter
31:59
which is a brilliant book on you know kind of silencing that internal critic
32:04
um and he's one of the world's leading experts in this area and one of the things that came out of his
32:11
research is one of the best ways to create psychological distance between
32:16
you and that thought swamp in your head is um to speak to yourself in the second or
32:22
third person so if you think about when the shit's hitting the fan and you're
32:29
losing your mind and you're getting overwhelmed by emotion what does it sound like in your head
32:35
what are the thoughts sound like and for me it's like oh my God I can't take it anymore I I can't deal with this like
32:41
I'm losing my mind like this sucks but it's all I me or my right first person
32:46
singular right and so in that thinking in those thoughts you can hear the tone
32:52
of voice or the emotion in those thoughts which is funny because there's an actual voice but that's beside the point
32:58
um but I am fused with my thoughts there's no distance between myself and
33:04
the pain that I am in I am in it yeah I am one with it now if
33:11
you can have awareness in those moments or maybe before those moments and start to speak to yourself I'll just use third
33:17
person because that's what I do John take a deep breath you're gonna be
33:23
fine relax yeah this is tough and you can handle this
33:28
and you can hear how there's a different emotion behind those thoughts but it gives you distance between
33:35
yourself and the difficult situation and it's the easiest way to gain psychological distance that we know of
33:41
we've known for years at psychological distance is important but all the interventions up to this
33:47
point have taken more cognitive load or thinking this takes very little
33:54
and so it's a great skill to practice and play around with yeah it's interesting because it's
33:59
almost like a mind-body connection but it's almost like an out of Body Mind Body or out of mind Mind Body Connection
34:06
that's what you're trying to create I mean because I at this point in my career I don't look at myself as my mind anymore
34:12
I think when I was younger I highly over identified with the Thinker right with my ego John oh John smart oh John does
34:21
amazing [ __ ] John's in such good shape oh oh John got
34:26
enough on that test John sucks he's a loser he's stupid you know like that shit's too painful it's too volatile so
34:33
now I see myself as this entity which kind of floats above my mind and can look down on my mind and say oh
34:40
well there's that thought again of I'm amazing that's I'm just blowing smoke up my ass I don't need that or there's that
34:45
thought again of I'm an idiot well that's not true I'm not going to believe that and and so it's interesting how that's
34:52
developed and over time I've even played around with ways to connect to source with the goal
35:01
of 100 physical relaxation and egolessness or ego death which that's
35:09
amazing but so far I've only been able to stay there for you know moments
35:14
so I'm interested in hearing a little bit more about this whole self-awareness and maybe how it fits into uh compartmentalization please so for me
35:22
I've never been special teams person however I've never been military but I've done a little bit of study on how
35:29
the brain works with these Special Teams guys and how their compartmentalization Works
35:35
in terms of they can get less sleep they can compartmentalize the actions that they need to do I'm not a military guy
35:42
like I said however you have the neck of a military man oh that's great I don't know if that's a compliment that's a
35:48
compliment oh good that is a compliment so um but I tend to compartmentalize things
35:54
so I went through a really kind of crazy childhood thing uh my mom was drug
35:59
addict alcoholic uh ended up kind of raising myself from the age of seven Ace of eight and so I have learned to
36:06
compartmentalize all that information and kind of be able to set that aside so I'm aware of it but it's not one of
36:14
those things where I end up kind of uh bringing it up to the surface so I'm
36:19
a self I'm self-aware of it however I don't bring all those things to uh kind of the surface and be able to talk
36:26
through it and all those have kind of set this aside and I'm pretty comfortable with how it works so because
36:32
I went through so much stress yeah and so much trauma kind of as a as a young
36:37
kid that it it it isn't that bad in what I go through now well
36:43
I'm sorry about that that's rough so with that in mind like how do you justify or how do you kind of uh bring
36:49
together this idea of compartmentalization and self-awareness and kind of dealing with those things
36:55
how does that work I'm interested in knowing kind of you know where to go and maybe do a little bit of psychoanalysis
37:01
on my part well it's a great question and
37:07
I guess I can respond with my own I guess personal experience or
37:13
experience in my life so my partner whom I've been with for seven years she's a therapist she prided herself on
37:20
being self-aware her father committed suicide when he was when she was 10. which is going to leave a mark
37:27
um a lot of trauma in her family and like past generational trauma
37:33
um and she she developed certain strategies to survive
37:41
and one of the strategies she developed was thinking her emotions
37:46
and I began to gently call her out on this
37:53
and you know more recently she's had an Awakening where she's starting to feel all the [ __ ] that
37:59
she hasn't felt for 35 years and
38:05
it's brutal at times to actually feel the stuff you've been buried you have
38:11
buried for 35 years anguish grief anger sadness disconnection
38:17
fear um and and so
38:23
you know I think there are I think the work is never ending
38:28
like I'm gonna be working on myself until I die and and that's a privilege right it's a
38:36
um it's a gift and sometimes it's a really painful gift that I'm not appreciative
38:41
of like I'm pissed off about it um and yet I think it's
38:46
the only heroic Journey left for us because if you consider like
38:52
we've we've explored all the land on this planet pretty much
38:58
we've explored the vast majority of the oceans to the extent we can reach the deeps The Depths
39:04
um we've explored outer space to the to the extent we can so far the only remaining heroic journey is
39:12
inward and that Journey requires a lot of Courage and I mean you're going to be exposed to
39:20
your shadows your demons the the parts of yourself that it's much easier to externalize onto others and project
39:26
blame on others um and to face your own [ __ ]
39:32
is terrifying and ultimately highly rewarding
39:39
I think it's the only thing left to do my own personal Journey which I started in a very intellectual way you know
39:45
reading books and and talking to people and that kept me at an intellectual level which was safe
39:52
but I was learning um as I got more into it I had to go
39:58
to an emotional level which um is a little bit like opening Pandora's Box
40:04
because you can't you can't control all those motions when
40:10
you first open and take the lid off that box and and that part's you know a little
40:16
scary like I've had men tell me well like I don't really want to go into my emotions because if I do it's like scratching a scab that will start
40:21
bleeding will never stop and I think our fear there is of like you know crying God forbid in front of other people
40:28
and and I get the fear I do I've had it myself um and yet again I think it's the only way
40:36
to deal with those fears is to go through them to walk into them
40:41
um and then I after dealing with it on an emotional level which I still have to deal with at times then it was a
40:47
relational level you know so where am I in relationship in my development as being a partner in
40:54
relationship and what do I need to work on there and what's it bringing up in me and what do I need to heal in myself that can only be healed
41:01
when I'm in relationship like there's some parts of me that I can't heal if I'm by myself
41:07
and then more recently I've been looking at it as spiritual Dimension and
41:13
trying to look at how do I develop that more spiritual side of myself
41:21
um so that's that's been kind of my journey um in terms of men that I work with I
41:28
typically go to self-awareness first I typically go to emotional awareness first because most of us are incredibly
41:35
over identified with the Thinker because that's how we've been socialized that's where we're rewarded you know think of getting good grades in class or getting
41:41
a degree or getting a promotion or you know getting kudos for a project well done all that's about thinking and the
41:48
intellect and it's safe and so then the next level is to go to you know
41:55
like how many emotions can you name because the vast majority of people can only name like three emotions in their
42:01
body happy sad mad and
42:08
you know I it's one of the reasons I wrote a book many years ago after being you know coming out of graduate schools
42:13
I realized I was still an idiot emotionally and I'm like I have a PhD in Psychology like if I'm still an idiot emotionally
42:20
everyone else has to be too and so I just started getting really curious about it and I think you know
42:26
that's one of the things that's a necessary precursor is humility
42:32
is to understand just how much you don't know oh 100 that's totally true and I
42:38
think that's a really healthy attitude that I would rather know that there's a
42:43
[ __ ] ton of information out there that I just do not know than to think I know it all yeah I
42:50
actually posted a meme that basically says if you're the smartest person in the room you're in the wrong room and I
42:57
like that a lot um so I mean I'm I'm very um tend to think I'm an idiot and uh how
43:05
dumb I am and I use that as language that I talk to myself about all the time so I don't know how self-deprecation uh
43:13
versus humility works but um I know that there's something we need you know to deal with in terms of bridging that gap
43:20
between self-deprecation humor and uh telling ourselves we're dumb asses all
43:25
the time yeah welcome to the club we have jackets yeah I definitely need one of those
43:31
jackets I think for sure so how do you kind of give guys
43:37
um an initial piece of advice to get started on this journey and kind
43:42
of the self-awareness and humility and all these things we've been discussing about kind of where would the average
43:47
person get started with ah man there's a lot
43:53
to that um I can say that one of the things that
43:59
has helped me is to try my best I wouldn't say I'm great at
44:04
it but to try my best to appreciate and walk into those experiences where
44:11
life just breaks me down and brings me to my knees
44:18
because I know that's an area that is just ripe for growth and I like there's a philosopher back
44:24
when I was this is one of the few things I remember about my philosophy um I think it was Jacques
44:30
yeah it has a lot of money for that one piece of knowledge [ __ ] um
44:37
um so but I think it was the French philosopher Jacques Dairy doll who said that what is required for true growth is
44:43
a radical shattering of one's framework and I have always loved that idea right that there's going to be times in life
44:49
where we get brought to our knees usually by external circumstances um and
44:55
we necessarily are forced to take the glasses off through which we view the world and throw them on the ground and
45:00
shatter them which necessitates getting on your knees and repeating the pieces back together
45:06
which is necessarily going to form a new way a new lens through which we see self and world
45:12
and there's nothing better for growth than that and in fact for some people that's
45:18
the only way growth happens and then for some people those incident happens those incidents
45:24
happen and no growth takes place so what would you rather do if you're going to experience the pain anyway
45:31
might as well use it for positive ends and so I think there's situational
45:37
humility you know those times where things happen and you just get humbled and blindsided and brought to your knees
45:43
and then I think there's um humility is a trait
45:48
and you know I think part of that is valuing humility part of that is
45:55
valuing curiosity part of that is having an awareness of just knowing how much you don't know
46:03
which is true for all of us period um
46:09
and I think someone was asking me a psychologist friend was asking me yesterday on his
46:16
podcast so you know humility is probably easier when things aren't going well in
46:22
life how do you stay humble when things are going well in life which is a really good question
46:27
and I said I think that you know when things are going well you know people will compliment me and so I try to
46:34
differentiate taking the compliment into my head
46:39
versus into my heart I don't believe it
46:45
in my head I look at it as blowing smoke I dismiss it I I minimize it
46:52
however I want to take I'm working on taking those compliments into my heart in terms of how they feel about me and
46:59
how others see me um because I do believe that other
47:05
people can see our positive traits far more accurately than we can I tell I tell my wife that all the time
47:11
about her um she she's you know like a lot of women faces a lot of self-esteem
47:18
um stuff and I'm like if you only saw yourself the way I see you
47:24
you would never have any self-esteem issues so and I think that's true for us
47:30
right yeah when I think part of humility is um
47:36
being in and of the people and I I mean we know that like you know
47:42
when we get into positions of power we lose degrees of empathy
47:48
and you know I we know that like as far as racism goes one of the solutions to racism is exposure yeah
47:56
and so you know to one of the experiments I did I don't know how this relates to humility but one of the
48:02
experiments I did because I'm aware that we have implicit and explicit bias right so we've got conscious and unconscious
48:09
biases or you read racism yeah and you
48:14
know in trying to increase my self-awareness I looked at what what groups am I willing to speak
48:21
to if I'm in line at Starbucks or the grocery store and
48:27
who am I most likely not to start a conversation with
48:32
that's a more difficult question yeah that you know I don't really
48:37
didn't really want to know the answer to and you know my answer was Chinese
48:43
people and Middle Eastern men so once I had that answer I'm like oh
48:49
[ __ ] okay well let me work on that and so one of the things I did was
48:54
shortly after that awareness I was invited on a VIP trip to China where they were inviting Silicon Valley people
49:01
to come over and try and teach them how to replicate Silicon Valley in a way which I I don't think they can do very
49:08
easily culturally because of their educational system it just doesn't the whole culture is more collectivistic
49:15
than individualistic and doesn't encourage creativity and Innovation because that's more individualistic yeah it is an entrepreneurial side to Silicon
49:22
Valley right yeah there's some there's some structural issues there or cultural issues but anyway um so I I readily accepted this trip to
49:29
China looking to expose myself to the people in the culture in an effort to erase
49:35
that unconscious bias did it work
49:41
yeah I think it worked you know tremendously I think one of my biases is though I also like people that
49:47
um are quick and easy to laugh and smile yeah and so that was one of the things that my stereotype was holding me back
49:54
there my stereotype of Chinese people was holding me back there very reserved and yeah so you found that not serious
49:59
yeah yeah it's not always true yeah that's interesting yeah I um I tend to
50:05
gravitate towards people that are like me right like that's I think that's what we do so it's hard to reach out hard to
50:10
get out of those boxes and and engage with people that aren't necessarily you
50:15
know my people right like that's yeah we that's uh that's really interesting
50:21
yeah so I think you know that's part of that self-awareness puzzle too of you know are you willing to ask uncomfortable uncomfortable questions of
50:28
yourself and then what are you willing to do about it yeah to do it the doing about it is the
50:34
hard part right like I mean it's like here's all the things that I need to work on and oh by the way I've got all this other stuff to do so I'm not going
50:41
to do that I mean there are much smaller steps that I've taken that don't necessitate a trip to China for example
50:47
because not everyone can do that um however like at least if I'm aware of the bias I can
50:54
make more effort to interact with Chinese people around me to dispel the bias right like even if they're just
51:00
those micro connections of two minute interactions waiting in line for a bagel yeah
51:07
and you know I'm always trying to connect with people strangers in an effort to find something that lights
51:14
them up or excites them in an effort ideally that we can both walk away with a smile because those small interactions
51:21
are cumulative and if you multiply that out by six ten
51:27
eight a day multiply that over 365 days of the year plus 10 years like you
51:33
systematically change your belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity right yeah absolutely
51:40
and you know a lot of times I'm assuming that can just be a smile or a nod or you
51:45
know like we I live in a rural area and it it always it actually has an impact
51:51
on me when people don't wave when we pass in a car yeah right
51:56
and we drive yeah when we're when we're a Jeep family and so in the Jeep culture it's kind of
52:03
like the Harley culture yeah when you see another Jeep you wave at each other and it's like offensive to me when they
52:10
don't yeah it's a connection it's a point of connection yeah it's a connection that we're supposed to have and when we miss that it it doesn't it
52:17
doesn't happen so and I assume that that and that's something that very readily carries over into your spousal
52:22
relationships and and we deal a lot with um kind of mentoring couples and and you
52:28
know and kind of trying to have that more um deeper connection yeah well I love so
52:35
there's a a friend of mine at UPenn that has come up with what I think is a brilliant line of research and he's
52:42
in positive psychology but he came up with this idea of Primal World beliefs
52:49
and Primal World beliefs are beliefs that we hold about the World At Large and so there's an overarching belief and
52:56
then there's like 20 25 or 26 other beliefs below that but the overarching one is the world is good versus bad
53:04
and think about that on a one to ten or one to 100 scale right so there's degrees and then from there it breaks
53:09
down to the world is safe versus dangerous the world is alive versus mechanistic the world is enticing versus
53:15
dull and so those core beliefs those Primal World
53:23
beliefs seem at this point to impact all that we believe all that we feel all
53:29
that we think and all that we do yeah that's huge if that holds true
53:35
because I believe that these World beliefs are easily manipulated or easily
53:40
modified and at some of them it's just a choice right yeah and then if you take and and
53:47
he doesn't do this but I take it to you know those so there's the beliefs we hold about the world there's another
53:52
level of beliefs we hold about people in general and then there's belief about self
53:58
but the one that I play around with a lot is this one about beliefs about people
54:03
people are good versus bad people are honest versus dishonest people are trustworthy versus untrustworthy people are out to get me versus you know would
54:11
ask would help if I ask and it's it's amazing to me because I've
54:16
talked to some clients and said like you know well where do you stand on this belief of people are
54:23
untrustworthy versus trustworthy on a one to 100 scale and this one guy was like well I would say
54:30
20 of people are trustworthy I was like okay well I would say 85 to
54:36
90 90 of people are trustworthy and trying their best and you know would help if I asked and I said it and that's fascinating to
54:43
me because objectively we live in the same world and yet we live in radically
54:48
different realities maybe he just flies more I always tell people
54:54
I contend that if you think the world is full of really good nice you know giving
55:00
people go fly about a hundred thousand miles in one year and then you haven't
55:06
Jaden a jade you know because those interactions are different right
55:11
society's getting people at their worst at their most tired at their hurried at their you know stressed and you know
55:18
then they become more self-absorbed yeah absolutely yeah it's it's a it's an interesting microcosm of society when
55:25
you when air travel in and of itself and I think that's why we're saying yeah I mean in that same context that you've
55:32
provided like I like to play around with can I make their day a little bit better can I make
55:38
them smile can I can I work them out of that stressed hurried mindset and some
55:44
people you just can't but the people that you can are generally quite appreciative yeah and to their credit the interesting
55:51
thing is you know you've been on a plane where the plane's delayed you're it makes for super fast
55:57
connections and the flight attendant comes on and says hey we've got four people on this plane that are seated towards the back
56:04
um and they need they have like 15 minutes to get their next plane would everybody please stay seated
56:09
and almost never do people actually stay seated and let the people off the plane
56:15
but those and I fly a lot and but those instances when they do collectively is
56:22
such a rewarding view of society because you're like wow this is this is a
56:28
Collective Agreement to be nice and kind well and realize that all it takes to
56:34
screw that up is one or two people yeah one or two selfish narcissistic people right because as soon as those people
56:39
stand up and start getting their bags it gives others permission everybody to do so it breaks the contract
56:47
and that's one of the that's one of the um real problems that I have with
56:53
narcissists is that you know for our society to operate
56:58
we need to trust one another and narcissists will feed off that and
57:04
abuse it and it pisses me off yeah and we've it seems like and you may or agree or disagree that we've now over the last
57:10
decade we've created way more narcissists than we've had at the time it's on the upswing yeah
57:16
particularly because of social media among other things but it's funny I did a podcast episode on narcissists and I
57:23
my ex-wife has some pretty strong narcissistic Tendencies and so I was talking about it and I got a little bit
57:30
angry and it accidentally slipped out of my mouth and I called narcissists rat
57:36
efforts oh out and I I completed it and I thought oh man
57:43
should I edit that out and I never edit my podcast so I was like yeah I screw it I'll just leave it in and so then the
57:49
next day on on social media I said I I issued an apology
57:55
and very sincerely I said you know what I let this term slip
58:00
and and I'm really sorry and I need to apologize that F rats
58:07
because it was totally unfair of me to compare them to narcissists because people that screw rats at least
58:13
they only harm rats I love it narcissists screw people and
58:18
they damn off people and I'm tired of it yeah I mean so much of my work has been trying to restore people that have been
58:26
damaged by a narcissist and it I've got a strong opinion yeah
58:33
obviously which is which is great that's you know that's that's part of you being self-aware
58:39
well I've taken up a ton of your time I appreciate you kind of dealing with me on the technical issues this has been
58:44
super interesting super helpful um how so what what steps would you take if people want to get in touch with you
58:51
if they want to take the you know I know you've got some books and um you know other resources what what's
58:56
the first step yeah you can so the the podcast is the evolved caveman I think
59:01
you can go to theevolvecaveman.com the podcast is available on all major platforms
59:08
um there's guide to self.com uh there's you know coaching packages available there if you want to do individual work
59:14
I currently have a men's group that I see virtually on Monday uh sorry Wednesday nights at 7 pm Pacific and
59:20
that's got a couple of openings if you want to a cheap way to work with me oh cool yeah I love the and that's probably
59:26
a great way to connect with other men and yeah there's something really special about being with a group of men that is
59:34
compassionate empathetic supportive where you can take either your lousy stuff that's happening to you or your
59:40
wins and will get support or celebration either way and there's something very different about being able to be honest
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and authentic with other men versus I think what we typically do which is we have that one woman in our life that we
59:53
can kind of share all our stuff with um radically different to do it with a group of men
59:59
yeah it's the you know the dynamic is is so different I tell my wife that you get the best and the worst of me yeah and um
1:00:06
and it's uh I haven't I personally have a really difficult time you know doing that with any of my friends so it takes
1:00:14
work like it's it takes some practice it takes some trust um and yeah I just want to say Kevin I really appreciate the work you're doing
1:00:20
and that you've done so thank you for what you're doing I'm doing my best right we're all we're all kind of doing it again and I think
1:00:26
like those that go into psychology they're trying to try to get introspective right there's a part of
1:00:31
that that's that's learning to more about myself so I can help other people yeah man especially yeah and it's you
1:00:38
know I'm 50 years old I've been married for 28 years I have great kids I have good businesses and I'm trying to
1:00:45
share whatever I can from myself and from experts like you to then you know
1:00:51
help these men to do more and at least take some steps you know take whatever that first step is that you need to kind
1:00:57
of get off the couch whether it's meant to be or physically yeah I'm no expert I'm just a court jester
1:01:03
hey the ex the the Court Jester is an expert in something right where Jester's always worried about survival because he
1:01:10
exists at the whim of the king and yeah that's where my clients you know if they're worth like hundreds of millions
1:01:15
of dollars you say the wrong thing to them they'll drown you in a lawsuit for the rest of your life and destroy me
1:01:21
that's a stressful I had one inch it was you know one of the heads of an international crime syndicate
1:01:28
wow um and then he turned on that on and then he had like 150 000 people that
1:01:33
wanted him dead yeah so that's that's a deep coaching uh
1:01:40
so I'm not this isn't hyperbole when I talk about the Court Jester and and you know
1:01:46
speaking truth to power with some degree of personal risk yeah that's um that's kind of crazy
1:01:54
actually that's uh that that's definitely you know getting down to a particular Niche yeah uh one that most
1:02:00
people wouldn't do but you know kudos to you for being willing because I mean at the end of the day whether you're a 100
1:02:06
billion dollar CEO or the custodian at a high school we we pretty much all deal with the same issues yeah well and
1:02:12
that's why I love that level of emotion right because I can connect with anybody in the world on the level of emotion
1:02:19
right that's and that's a that's a beautiful
1:02:24
thing to have yeah well hopefully we can all do a little bit better today than we were yesterday absolutely all right Dr
1:02:32
John thank you so much I appreciate you you bet I appreciate you too thanks for having me if you if you're looking to
1:02:37
really relaximize your life and differ to maxed outman.com and get your
1:02:44
journey started today